tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post1075078802407732591..comments2024-03-13T07:52:13.478-04:00Comments on THE SWASH ZONE: You Might Be a Troll If... (A Long Essay on Trolls and Trollery)(O)CT(O)PUShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-45081700342648329322010-04-28T02:41:20.292-04:002010-04-28T02:41:20.292-04:00bloggindno - Foo-Cow and Derridada and Gene-Franci...<b>bloggindno</b> - <i>Foo-Cow and Derridada and Gene-Francis Lyotards</i><br /><br />Precious!(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-33757070917215878792010-04-26T08:32:19.344-04:002010-04-26T08:32:19.344-04:00Matt,
Yes, I think G-Beck's schtick fits some...Matt,<br /><br />Yes, I think G-Beck's schtick fits some of the tactics I describe, in that hokey "aw shucks" way. He's always giving people the impression that he wants them to think for themselves, connect the dots, and suchlike -- even as he serves up bowl after bowl of piping hot Cream of Bullshit (TM).<br /><br />Thanks to everyone for your fine comments in this thread.bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-35107594246712402482010-04-26T08:27:00.613-04:002010-04-26T08:27:00.613-04:00Octo,
Thanks, will have a look at the article. I...Octo,<br /><br />Thanks, will have a look at the article. It sounds spot on -- I think all of us do that sometimes: we just filter out whatever comes from "the other side." The gesture is legitimate if we're talking about a cable-stable of propagandists, but of course there are authors like Edmund Burke and others of that caliber to reckon with, and they deserve a listen-up, if not necessarily a shout-out.<br /><br />Sir Francis Bacon laid out a fine theory in <em>Novum Organum</em> or <em>The New Organon,</em> Book 1 (Aphorisms 39-68), as I'm sure you know, about the several ways in which we distort everything around us; he refers to the Four Idols: <br /><br /><b>Idols of the Tribe (<em>Idola Tribus</em>):</b> human nature is just limited; people may misunderstand things, hear what they want to hear, be tricked by their senses, etc. (Bacon says nothing of the dinosaurs, I'm thankful.)<br /><br /><b>Cave (<em>Idola Specus</em>):</b> individual defects and peculiarities give a cast to our understanding and our observations. Hey, some people like their breakfast eggs "facing Jesus"; others like them scrambled. It isn't only the English who are eccentric....<br /><br /><b>Idols of the Marketplace (<em>Idola Fori</em>):</b> words from all walks of life, and I suppose language more generally, get in our way of seeing things as they are. Linguistic errors stem inevitably from the "intercourse and association of men with each other." That's just like intercourse -- always causing us problems, and yet we have it anyway. Oh intercourse -- ni avec toi, ni sans toi! Anyhow, Bacon's scientific desire is to get beyond Scholastic wrangling and go directly to observation of nature itself. He seems to have considered this possible because he hadn't read all those smarty-pants po-mo Frenchmen like Foo-Cow and Derridada and Gene-Francis Lyotards. Have always liked non-Frenchman but yes-po-mo author Fredric Jameson's phrase "the prison house of language." Of course, I like words, so I'm with Elvis on this one: words, "You the cutest little jailbird I ever did see, let's rock."<br /><br /><b>Idols of the Theater (<em>Idola Theatri</em>):</b> thought systems -- philosophy, theology,and traditional beliefs create their own isolated worlds that become "my story and I'm sticking to it" material for whole groups of people. And then they kill one another, more often than not.<br /><br />Finally, I think he left out the Idols of Hollywood (<em>Idola Holliwoodi</em>). But you can read all about them in the tabloids....bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-73538000789009552672010-04-26T02:07:57.164-04:002010-04-26T02:07:57.164-04:00There is a fine article on epistemic closure , whi...There is a fine article on <a href="http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2010/04/more-on-that-closed-loop.html" rel="nofollow">epistemic closure </a>, which is defined as a complete refusal to look at evidence that doesn’t come from like-minded sources: <br /><br /><i>The accusation isn't that conservatives all reach the same conclusions about everything, nor is it that conservatives are excessively politically correct, nor is it that conservatives demand strict adherence to a set of ideas if one is to remain a conservative in good standing. It's rather about information, and what counts as evidence about the real world … that if one only gets information from a narrow set of sources that feed back into each other but do not engage beyond themselves, that one will have a closed mind … regardless of what one does with that information</i>.<br /><br />Or to put it more succinctly, there cannot be another valid and sensible worldview ... end of discussion.<br /><br />As long as there will be human beings, there will always be chicanery, and as long as there are both, the catalogue of linguistic and logical abuses will continue to grow.(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-23578407198570735952010-04-25T23:46:24.502-04:002010-04-25T23:46:24.502-04:00It strikes me that this list could also apply to m...It strikes me that this list could also apply to most of Glenn Beck's broadcasting. I refer you to my recent video about the way he conflates entirely unrelated items under some scary rubric.Matt Osbornehttp://www.osborneink.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-23486068462622506542010-04-25T17:07:03.952-04:002010-04-25T17:07:03.952-04:00Well, ahem, ahem - - - after 20+ years of working ...Well, ahem, ahem - - - after 20+ years of working with and hanging out with media types, I'm not so erudite. Of course, the minute I call someone an ass, or worse, I know it was the wrong tactic and that I didn't accomplish nearly as much as you do. Too old to change course, I guess - or too hot a temper.Leslie Parsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13743778482517634823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-37976521594909183232010-04-25T15:58:07.663-04:002010-04-25T15:58:07.663-04:00tnlib told me to come check this out.
Excellent. ...tnlib told me to come check this out. <br />Excellent. <br />IMO: All decent, respectful trolls should be treated with kindness, and nurtured. They are the ones that need to be enlightened. <br />Blatant, rude, offensive, disrespectful trolls should be as George Carlin once said about rethugs. "I do not like to be cute with them, I like to CRUSH THEM."<br /><br />I like your blog, now I will go back the the other ZONE. LOL. <br />Thnaks tnlib for the tip.Tao Dao Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16229628652152584292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-48249227396379903482010-04-25T12:15:08.693-04:002010-04-25T12:15:08.693-04:00Dino - quite a comprehensive discussion of all thi...Dino - quite a comprehensive discussion of all things Troll!rockynchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772988855661101621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-49077508849887938282010-04-25T11:28:04.108-04:002010-04-25T11:28:04.108-04:00Capt. Fogg,
Muchibus thankibus and welcome back t...Capt. Fogg,<br /><br />Muchibus thankibus and welcome back to the ZONE. It's true that most of the time I just roar pointlessly, the way I've heard people on the roads in some countries honk for the hell of it. But once in a while I concentrate the old walnut brain and churn out something almost human. I'm flattered that you think my writing is anywhere near as good as yours.bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-58053571679305065872010-04-25T11:02:05.513-04:002010-04-25T11:02:05.513-04:00Oh to be a dinosaur!
All of the above
I'd loud...Oh to be a dinosaur!<br />All of the above<br />I'd loudly roar<br />And nothing more.<br /><br />Actually I wish I hadn't read it since I'd keep trying to say something like it and now when I do, I'll come out second rate in comparison.<br /><br />None the less, Zarathustra never spake as incisively or with such incisors!<br /><br />I tend not to call anyone an ass either -- I'd rather send them to look up Gaandu or Arschloch or μαλάκας.Capt. Fogghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03093968390001879062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-55285172498630577622010-04-25T01:38:33.140-04:002010-04-25T01:38:33.140-04:00Outstanding, Bloggingdino. I agree with Elizabeth...Outstanding, Bloggingdino. I agree with Elizabeth: An instant Internet classic and required reading before entering the Zone.<br /><br />One of Shaw's readers accused me once of being a troll, which I found laughable because I am listed on her site as a co-blogger. There is a <a href="http://trollblog.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Trollblog</a> but the author is not a troll, just another cynic who has been been trying to kick the habit (without the Novice inside).(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-30828769328294983102010-04-24T23:13:26.763-04:002010-04-24T23:13:26.763-04:00By the way, Elizabeth, I think the argumentum ad b...By the way, Elizabeth, I think the <em>argumentum ad baculum</em> is underappreciated in its time (and ours). We dinosaurs still employ the <em>argumentum ad dentes</em> to startling effect.bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-82053958416703747302010-04-24T23:07:52.976-04:002010-04-24T23:07:52.976-04:00Will H,
Ha! That's awesome! I'm tempted...Will H,<br /><br />Ha! That's awesome! I'm tempted to ask, in the best troll-speak I can muster, "So how did that work out for ya?"<br /><br />I like the idea of it -- a troll setting up a blog. I guess maybe such a person could visit his own site and write scurrilous falsehoods about himself and obfuscate his own arguments. Sounds like good clean fun, no?bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-88257867264514578572010-04-24T22:49:25.466-04:002010-04-24T22:49:25.466-04:00I was called a troll on my own blog once. I mean, ...I was called a troll on my own blog once. I mean, really, does it get any better than that?Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-58366529803715759622010-04-24T18:03:03.283-04:002010-04-24T18:03:03.283-04:00jadedj,
Much appreciated. Yes, they are irritati...jadedj,<br /><br />Much appreciated. Yes, they are irritating rascals, and apt to draw us beyond our proper selves.bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-75065216652072929412010-04-24T17:38:37.835-04:002010-04-24T17:38:37.835-04:00Excellent. All points that I frequently fail to ke...Excellent. All points that I frequently fail to keep in mind, when riled. I am too often troll sucker bait. I attribute this to my Irish antecedents. Perhaps I need to print this out, and keep it by my computer when I go acommenting.jadedjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16569736113526368917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-87050045553879301762010-04-24T15:28:47.677-04:002010-04-24T15:28:47.677-04:00Elizabeth, thanks. And I know you would never cal...Elizabeth, thanks. And I know you would never call a visitor an ass. "Ape-headed, mouse-eared mother-trucker," sure, but "ass"? Never! :)<br /><br />Tnlib, thanks. There be some that have earholes but hear not. Stegosaurs in particular. You gotta make it real plain for them. Hadn't thought of the YouTube propagandists, but I'm sure there are a zillion of them.bloggingdinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13662019748756311248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-39521497387567071022010-04-24T15:11:52.907-04:002010-04-24T15:11:52.907-04:00And don't let us forget the ones who use Youtu...And don't let us forget the ones who use Youtube as a source.Leslie Parsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13743778482517634823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-30790178445001390062010-04-24T15:09:08.105-04:002010-04-24T15:09:08.105-04:00Dino. Marvelous. The only trouble is that you writ...Dino. Marvelous. The only trouble is that you write so elequently the trolls, righties, can't begin to comprehend what you're saying.Leslie Parsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13743778482517634823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5396840695026739991.post-39996909958324242582010-04-24T14:52:14.826-04:002010-04-24T14:52:14.826-04:00Fantastic, Dino -- an instant classic. Should be f...Fantastic, Dino -- an instant classic. Should be featured permanently as "Must read before ye enter The Zone."<br /><br />I'm waiting for a client, so don't have as much time to comment now as I'd like (later perhaps), but I have to add that when everything else fails, there is always <a href="http://nowherethemiddle.blogspot.com/2009/08/argumentum-ad-baculum.html" rel="nofollow">argumentum ad baculum</a>.<br /><br />P.S. I have never called any conversational opponent an <i>ass</i>. (Yes, I'm <i>that</i> polite. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com