Asked pointedly and repeatedly on CNN this morning however, Mack refused to comment on whether Geithner or the Obama administration should attempt to recover the funds, repeating again and again that they never should have been given and asking what Geithner knew and when he knew it.
"Quite simply, the Timothy Geithner experience has been a disaster."said Mack last Wednesday. Once again, CNN missed the opportunity to ask whether the huge disaster of the last 8 years was anyone outside the current administration's responsibility and whether the 8 years of mismanagement could reasonably be expected to have been rectified in a matter of weeks without the waste of a hundredth of a percent. Are we to have forgotten that the kind of oversight that would have prevented the mess was the devil himself to every Republican of the last several decades?
I have to recall however that the Republicans waited two months longer to declare the Obama Administration a failure and disaster than they did when Bill Clinton was elected. Some couldn't wait for him to actually take office to begin the disinformation, investigation and sabotage and what can we call this but sabotage as they offer no practical alternative other than to attack, attack and attack?
One can never hope for contrition from any Republican it seems, nor can anyone expect their cooperation in any attempt to deal with their failures and misdeeds. It's just the Same Old Party and the Same Old Excuses.
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ReplyDeleteDave,
ReplyDeleteYou study and analyze your bowel movements?
Isn't that some sign of some sort of serious emotional issue?
I left this comment in response to one of TAO's articles which also has relevance here:
ReplyDelete- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Open Minded Republican: “The diference [sic] between the AIG bonuses and the UAW renegotiation is one of timing. Had the requirement for limiting bonuses or even pay of AIG employees been placed ahead of time, as a condition for assistance, there would have been much less opposition from the right.”
More than timing, my friend. There are vast ideological differences that have brought on this crisis, resulting in a class and social crisis as well as a financial one. My biggest bugbear with right wing Republicans is over economics and the tendency of the last 28 years to reward wealth and privilege over work and performance.
Example: UAW workers earning $40 to 50K per annum need every penny of income just to survive. For 28 years, wages have remained stagnant, savings rates have declined, while real living costs (i.e., education, healthcare, energy, food, and housing) have risen far faster than the base inflationary rate.
Result: Between 2001 and 2007, the wealthiest individuals took home 103% of the growth in GDP; middle incomers lost ground by an estimated 7 to 10%.
Example: Corporate executives have “gamed the system” to protect their incomes and rationalize their privileges. CEO salaries have risen regardless of actual business performance. Fifty years ago, the ratio of CEO pay, compared with the lowest-paid worker, was under 100:1. Today, the ratio is above 400:1.
Example: During the recession of 1992, the CEO of AT&T ordered the layoff of 40,000 workers and took a $10 million bonus. This kind of behavior is more than merely offensive; it turns the American work ethic upside down and rewards failure when we should be rewarding achievement, productivity, and success.
Business risk is no longer shared across all income groups; CEOs reward themselves in good times or bad. Taxpayers pay for bailouts, shareholders take the loss ... as executive pay continues to rise. During periods of economic retraction, labor is prevailed upon for wage, health, and pension benefit concessions; management rewards itself with an ever increasing share of the nation's wealth.
Republican administrations have advanced, defended, and justified an unfair and unjust economic model. Anger over AIG bonuses has triggered an awakening ... long overdue in my opinion.
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ReplyDeleteCrap blogging! Sorry bull, but I believe Erica and Elisson have the market cornered on that...
ReplyDeleteAs for those of us blogging at the Swash Zone, why, we all float down here!
Goodbye Dave, pitbull, whoever you are; I'd like to say we'll miss you, but, we probably won't...
But he's such an illustration of the same old shit, isn't he? Never mind you sank the ship, just keep yelling at the coast guard.
ReplyDeleteIsn’t the truth that it’s both parties who are at fault here? The Republicans were in power then the Democrats took over 2 years ago. Neither party did anything by way of over sight. Both parties have become power hungry and greedy. The Bush Administration passed the Tarp bill with no strings and then the Obama Administration passed the Stimulus Bill before anyone had a chance to read it, which included these astronomical bonuses. It appears both sides have contributed to this problem; however neither wants to admit fault; but both wants to point fingers. Pointing fingers and trying to pass blame is just childish and it will not solve the problem. And I think the American people are sick of it. I know I am. The answer is getting Geithner some help. Whether we agree or not if he’s the man for the job, he has the job, and he needs assistance if he’s going to get a handle on this problem.
ReplyDeleteI agree that blame needs to go around. But Democrats and Republicans are not two sides of the same coin like so many people seem to believe. Republicans have continued to offer the same ideas for the last 30 years, completely ignoring the fact that the situation has changed. Democrats, and this may just be my bias talking, have contributed actual ideas. They have actually tried to help the country. They are not completely consumed with playing politics.
ReplyDeleteThe big (and I mean really big) error the Democrats made time and time again was to not stand up to the Republicans. They let Bush do whatever he wanted for years - first when they were in the minority and then still when they were the majority. The Democrats have decent ideas, they have just been utterly inept at sharing them with the American people.
I hope the gridlock in Washington can end. I think it can. But it means the Republicans have to stop trying to score political points every two seconds and the Democrats have to get a backbone and actually say what they stand for.
Well said
ReplyDeletePamela, thanks for visiting our site, and my apologies if my overly aggressive comment offended you yesterday (that comment has since been removed). Although I agree more with Brian's viewpoint, your commentary is welcome here.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Octo. I'm trying to expand my mental horizons, so to speak, and I think your blog is interesting. I don't want to be stuck and I want to see both sides. If that makes any sense.
ReplyDeleteBrian, I agree that the Republicans have totally lost their way. However, I feel the same about the Democrats. I haven't seen any "new" ideas from them, either. All I hear from them is spend and increase government. Enlighten me, please, on how you think they've changed. I believe that both parties have become stuck.
That's a good question Pamela. Maybe "new" isn't the right word, at least not when it comes to policy. But when I look at many of the core policy initiatives the Democrats are offering - national healthcare, increased regulation of financial institutions, a call for diplomacy, an end to the Iraq war, closing Guantanamo, etc. - I get the sense that Democrats' are at least trying. These may not be new ideas, but they are old ideas newly relevant to our current situation. I agree with the Democratic position (and most polls show the majority of Americans do too) on those, and other, issues. Disagreeing with those views is fine - maybe even good - in so far as we can have a discourse. But Republicans, for example, don't strike me as disagreeing because of what they believe, but because they simply want to disagree.
ReplyDeleteBut also important is the role of politics beyond policy. This is where I think the Democrats have done a poor job articulating their positions. All except one Democrat, and he happens to be the most important one. Obama's vision of unity and shared sacrifice and, I would say, returning the country to its roots is very important - and, sadly, new. It may seem like empty rhetoric sometimes, but I really think words matter. I think in that regard Obama has already delivered on the change he promised. It is my hope that that vision will extend to the rest of the party and maybe even to the GOP, but it will take time - probably a lot of it.
Btw, I agree completely about expanding horizons. It's something I need to do more of.
More thoughts:
ReplyDeleteIn terms of Democrats wanting to spend and increase government, I don't see this as a necessarily bad thing. It can be bad (as George Bush, perhaps ironically, proved), but it's not like that spending isn't getting us anything. Perhaps the stimulus, for example, wasn't perfect; legislation, especially of that size, never is. But there are a lot of good programs that will likely come of that bill. I'd say the same about Obama's budget. Having to pay some money to get those benefits is not only okay with me, but it seems perfectly appropriate and even necessary. I suppose this is the core difference between liberals and conservatives. Thoughts?
It's clear that political parties can undergo ideological change over time – today's Republican Party bears little resemblance to the one founded by Lincoln's generation, except that there's always been a strong element in favor of commerce.
ReplyDeleteI don't see a great deal of potential in many of today's congressional Democrats. Few of them are willing to stand up for anything they believe in strongly enough to inspire confidence, which is why people dismiss even some of the best ideas they have to offer. Congressional Republicans don't have that problem; unfortunately, an alarming number of them are idiots, so their firmness of view is detrimental to the country. I think President Obama is several generous cuts above hackery, so I'm optimistic about his chances of setting right at least some things that ail us.
I don't put much stock in political wolf-cryouts such as "we didn't even have time to read the bill!" It's a good guess that every bill of any heft whatsoever has been characterized in precisely that way, by members of whichever party felt aggrieved. The Republicans who are whining about the stimulus bill being passed prematurely wouldn't read the bill (or any significant portion thereof) if you gave them a hundred years of uninterrupted time to concentrate.
Yes Brian, we’ll have to agree to disagree on the core principals between liberals and conservatives. However, I do agree that WORDS matter. And Obama has made a big difference there. He’s been able to do something that most people haven’t been able to do. He’s brought a lot of people together and given them hope, which is a feat unto itself. As far as Republicans disagreeing just to disagree, I see the Democrats like that, too. I feel like our politicians are more concerned with getting reelected than they are with what’s right or with what their values are. And I’m seeing this on both sides, not just with Republicans. I feel like most of them have lost their way. I am so disgusted with our politicians. I feel that there is just too many that have been there too long and they can’t see the forest through the trees. I’m hoping 2010 will give us some “change” on both sides.
ReplyDeleteHi Pam,
ReplyDeleteI am not so sure the labels "conservative" versus "liberal" matter as much as they used to. There has been a subtle but discernable realignment since the last election with many traditional conservatives (such as Colin Powel, the son of William F. Buckley, Goldwater’s daughter, and Eisenhower’s granddaughter) switching parties to support Obama. For me, this is gratifying … NOT from the viewpoint of proselytizing or seeking vindication ... but to form a new consensus on what is best for our country and our world.
Although I self-identify as liberal, in fact, I have no party affiliation according to my voter registration. I would not want any party to take my vote granted.
I welcome your participation here in more ways than I can express. When I have these conversations with some folks who self-identify as “conservative,” I find our core values are very similar, in fact, sometimes identical. Where we differ is role of government. TAO and I are of the same opinion that a new realignment is emerging comprised of traditional conservatives and “new” liberals.
I hope you will continue to visit us because this dialogue is our future.
Thank you, Octo, that means a lot to me. I try to stay open minded so that I can learn more and understand others better. I agree that we get caught up in labels. A habit I think most people are guilty of. I’ve read some of Tao's comments and I like his writings. I will continue to visit, as a matter of fact, I've added The Swash Zone to my BlogRoll. I think having you and Gray Headed Brother on my blog has livened things up. Be sure to visit soon, I’ve just posted a blog that’s sure to cause a stir!
ReplyDeleteI feel like our politicians are more concerned with getting reelected than they are with what’s right or with what their values are. And I’m seeing this on both sides, not just with Republicans. I feel like most of them have lost their way. I am so disgusted with our politicians. I feel that there is just too many that have been there too long and they can’t see the forest through the trees.
ReplyDeleteI have to thank you Pam - you've got me thinking about this in a way I haven't for awhile. I have been largely selectively remembering the good parts about the Dems and forgetting the bad. I completely forgot that I was so fed up with the Democrats that I was seconds away from leaving the party. I said to myself that if, by some fluke, Obama doesn't win, I'm out. I'll stand by my earlier comment that I think the Democrats are at least trying, but more change is still needed.
I'm sure we disagree about a great many things, but I'm happy to have these sorts of exchanges.
"I am not so sure the labels "conservative" versus "liberal" matter as much as they used to"
ReplyDeleteThat should be handed down graven in stone from whatever sacred mountain is nearby. There is nothing conservative about today's self-styled conservatives and liberal means nothing of the sort when they use it. It's just a crepuscular pejorative that allows people to take pride in ignorance, fear and anger and to act like victims.
These two terms have been carefully crafted to mean what the party of Limbaugh says they mean and they are the parents of more false dichotomies than can be counted. I try to avoid using them.
I feel torn between embracing the term "liberal" and shying away from it. On the one hand, I don't want the "party of Limbaugh" to get away with telling me what my beliefs are - those beliefs are, after all, nothing of the sort that Limbaugh describes them as. In this regard I want to use the word liberal, well, liberally. I want to take back that word - use for what it really means.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, the Limbaughs of the world have been quite successful in defining the ideology, and I don't want, in saying I am liberal, to be misconstrued as saying I am a hippie-commie or whatever the hell Limbaugh thinks I am.
It's a dilemma.
"to be misconstrued as saying I am a hippie-commie or whatever the hell Limbaugh thinks I am."
ReplyDeleteReminds me of a rant he went on back in the 90's. It was about some proposal to set up electrical co-operatives as a way to keep rates down in the era of Enron.
Rush confused co-operative with commune and went on and on about those damned liberals trying to organize our electrical grid like "hippies"
The man's an idiot. I don't think there's any way to deny it. For what it's worth, I do not remember him getting angry about Enron cutting off power to widows and orphans while getting huge bonuses.
It's not about Liberal Vs. Conservative -- in fact I think few things really are. It's about stupid versus smart, ignorant Vs. informed and decent Vs. uncivilized.
okay, can't you just picture the purrfectly serene setting that would take place while the old ones of the tribe help the young by direction in setting up our next "let's know each other" gathering. and yes, you old ones (and we all know who we are) will listen and learn because "the times they are'a changin'" so get out of the old one if you can't lend a hand, blah,blah,blah the times...
ReplyDeletethey are and they've got to be, changin. bottom line, where do we go from here? name calling isn't really fun (and something judith manners warned about) and still solves nothing of value. so...what'a an educated person of average IQ supposed to think? sure we could start with a meeting and folks' honest oppinions and the hopes and beliefs that they hold to be real for their future.
what if only 10 out of 100 plans had a lot of those reasons in place? so then do we tell them that their "hopes and beliefs" cannot, sorry, match up to what we're looking for. ------------------see where this is going? there is still a puppet master who 'knows' his is the way, and if the (w)rest of the comminity doesn't realize it and begins to raise questions and alarms, well then "obviously" they have been misinvormed and must soon hear the truth before they too are ostracized from the rest of the community.
okay, it's me again. and while i don't mind having help and onsite ears, besides mine, i will promise, now and forever, to be true to my beliefs. give it a chance. we don't all have to agree to be friends, but as long as you continue to vote in mayor eclections, and hug me whenever i am so needy of it...well golly, you and i can agee to diagree for ever. and you know that a bit of that is said, tongue in cheek, so to speak. ps. please goes hand/hand with friends forever. lets not take each other so seriously, give second chances, accept that none of us are infallible perfect, or without doubt. and, we all need help: a kind word, a hug, a last minute lunch invite, or hows'e about a walk in the park before break is over.
bottom line::::::golden rule.
getout there, i'll just bet you'll help make at least one person find they like you, and are impacted and at least one person will be totally affected by your 'joie de vivre'
Well, we sure do love to have an "enemy" to villify, burn in effigy, whatever.
ReplyDeleteBut, if we are to move forward we need to understand that the real blame lays squarely on our own shoulders:
For being apathetic and allowing politicians to slide by pandering to various special interests.
For allowing an atmosphere of fear mongering and mockery to pervade our democratic process.
For choosing a side in an "us" against "them" mentality that has helped to create the extreme right and extreme left to which the majority of us DO NOT belong to.
We are Americans, we all love our country, we all want to preserve our constitution and all that it guarantees. We all want to be prosperous and healthy and we want a rosy future for our descendents.
And that is where we should begin...