Every news show I've watched the last few weeks has some well meaning person saying we're all guilty of the destruction of the Gulf of Mexico. I'm sorry. I'm not.
Strike that "I'm sorry" thing. I'm not sorry I'm not guilty. I didn't vote for Bush. I felt the proper liberal bewilderment when Sarah Palin kept on saying "drill baby, drill." I've asked that my taxes be raised so we can have a government that can afford to govern.
These people say anyone that uses oil is guilty. It sucks that electric cars like the Chevy Volt which hasn't even been for sale yet cost 40 grand. I don't have 40 grand and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay the finance charges on a 40 thousand dollar loan so my electric bill can skyrocket from having to plug the damn car in every night.
I have a Ford Fusion 4 cylinder non hybrid that gets 30 mpg on the highway and 23 in the city. That's the best I can do to fight BP.
I didn't tell BP to keep operating after problems with the leaking pipes started. I didn't kill the Kennedys or Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln. Hell. I have people that still won't speak to me in my hometown because I thought renaming a street in honor of Dr. King was a good idea. Okay. I plead guilty for feeling guilty that racism is still alive in our Country and I wanted to do what I could to stick it to some racists by renaming a street after a great American they hate.
It's too easy and for some reason people think it's profound or fair or some other nonsense to blame us all for bad things. Well I don't accept blame for things that aren't my fault. I can think of damn few problems that arose from liberal policies. Most of the problems we face now are from republican ideas like deregulation. Supply side, deficit building economics. Incoherent immigration policies. And I'm not sure if immigration is even a problem or just another bogeyman created by tea bagging types to get people to not pay attention to their really stupid ideas. Occupations of countries that are no threat, one of them never was a threat, that drain our treasury and worse, continue to rack up casualties among our brave Troops.
The signs and bumper stickers say "Don't blame me. I voted for Bush." And the republicans call themselves the party of personal responsibility.
I quite agree with you, I am not guilty just because I drive a gas powered vehicle; there is no real viable choices yet. I have been a supporter of funding and developing alternative energy sources for years. I have not turned a blind eye to the violations on oil rigs and if someone had asked my permission to drill in the Gulf, I would have said NO!
ReplyDeleteSo let's place the responsibility of the horrific destruction squarely on the shoulders of those who did not do their job and ensure safety and protect living beings.
Oh Truth, such RATIONAL thought!
ReplyDeleteThe folks that need to stand up and take the blame for our current situation are those who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004! Of course not a single one will acknowledge that now because they are too busy attempting to claim that they are INDEPENDENT and now are pimping the libertarians and the tea bag party!
Six months ago they were pimping Sarah Palin...
We have to maintain our sanity in this crazy, crazy world....
Aww, come on, Truth. Fess up. You must be guilty of something!
ReplyDeleteNo viable alternative to the automobile?
ReplyDeletePlease.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but the oil embargo of 1973 taught me that our sources for petroleum were unreliable. The Exxon Valdez. Ixtoc. Reports from Ecuador, Nigeria, etc. of the horrific effects of petroleum extraction on indigenous populations taught me that corruption, lack of oversight and a blind drive for maximum profit would insure reasonable precautions & environmental stewardship would not be a top priority
We've had an awfully long time to reconsider our choices. That we continue to make the wrong ones is all our responsibility. Over consumption. Suburban & exurban sprawl filled with housing developments with perfect, chemically enhanced lawns. Cars for every member of the family.
Sorry this isn't GWB's fault. It's ours.
Arthurstone and I are dating ourselves by admitting stuff like this: I was all grown up in '73 and remember the lines at the gas pumps well. I was absolutely horrified to see the SUV craze of the nineties. And the hyper-materialism of the same decade. And Hummers? Don't get me started.
ReplyDeleteSo, in the seventies we learned that reliance on fossil fuels was a bad idea. We also thought we'd dumped stiletto pumps for Earth Shoes, meat eating for veganism, and trumped-up wars for ALWAYS giving peace a chance first. I'm still trying to figure out who forgot all that and when they forgot it! And where was I when they did?!
I must not have been watching closely enough. I must have overestimated my fellow man, again. I must bear some responsibility for that.
And I still understand exactly how you feel.
You don't accept blame for things that aren't your fault?
ReplyDeleteNot much of a Democrat, are you?
Arthurstone, I too sat in the gas lines of the 70s and urged my representatives on Capitol Hill to support alternative fuel research and STILL there is no practical alternative to the gas powered automobile. I work in a rural area in a business where I must travel miles each day so an electric car with 100 mile limitations will not work. And their mileage stats are not that great. The car I drive now gets 30-32 mpg. It has a lot of miles on it now and I need a new car but I have dug in my heels and refuse to replace this car with another gas powered one. I am waiting for an alternative fuel vehicle.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I'm still waiting is NOT apathy on my part but the apathy of Washington and the greed of corporate giants.
I have done what I can to contact my representatives who have the power to influence policy and voiced my opposition to off shore drilling and pushed for more funding for green R&D.
So, no, I will not accept some sort of mass guilt for those in Washington who have ignored us and continued down this path.
GWB and his administration bears some responsibility as does the current administration as does all those who have sat there ignoring the writing on the wall in exchange for their own greedy ambitions.
Sorry Arthur, I am not much for group responsibility and thats exactly why liberalism is dead on arrival nowadays in this country.
ReplyDeleteI am NOT responsible for the disaster in the gulf nor was I responsible for the destruction caused by Katrina. I did not start the Iraq War, and I have no obligation to accept the blame for the outcomes of a variety of events that occur on a daily basis.
I remember the oil embargo of the 70's...and I even worked at a gas station for two years during the embargo so I remember it quite well...
In reality, I own two cars that are shared by three drivers and I spend less and I consume less oil today than I did in 1975. That even takes into consideration the fact that in 1975 I rode a bike to work at a gas station.
I also believe that the whole tea bag movement is actually a citizens revolt against the liberal concept of group responsibility.
I am not obligated to bail out Wall Street, I am not obligated to be responsible for corporate decisions of BP.
I don't really need Al Gore telling me about global warming, as he owns two homes that take up thousands more square footage of space more than my own home.
What I need is to be a member of a society where everyone takes responsibility for their individual actions as I do.
But I do refuse to be obligated for the irresponsibility of others.
Thank you TAO for bringing another aspect to this discussion and perhaps I need to clarify my position.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do not feel I am "guilty" of anything, I still feel a grave responsibility to continue to work against the kind of irresponsible greed that is destroying our planet and do whatever I can to improve the environment for myself, my descendants and all other living things.
And that is an important difference; guilt merely lays the blame somewhere while responsibility calls for action. Many of us did not make the mess nor did we support the making of the mess but we will shoulder the responsibility of cleaning up the mess. In return I want the truly guilty to pay for their misdeeds and be prevented from doing so again.
Now Rocky,
ReplyDeleteYou talk a good game, but I saw one of your cousins out in my backyard this morning, and I'll bet the little rascal was intent on generally promoting mayhem and/or havoc. Guilty as charged! (Still, I enjoyed seeing a raccoon in my yard. Always a thrill since I live in a suburban area, not the outback.)
Anyway, I have no problem with saying that "we" as a society have made some pretty bad choices, what with all those 5-mpg SUV's and so forth out there. But I think that rhetorically, at least, it's right to lay most of the blame on the nastards who profit handsomely by promoting that behavior: irresponsible, greedy carmakers, oil companies, and conniving politicians in bed with them or snowed by their sugarplum, see-no-evil philosophy. Their self-interested nonsense largely shapes public opinion and sets expectations, and they know exactly what they're doing.
As I said in a comment on a previous post, it's not so much "consumption" that's the enemy here -- it's the modes and materials we employ that are doing us in.
Actually Tao you are obligated to bail out Wall Street.
ReplyDeleteLikewise you are obligated to pay, as am I, for the consequences of our not so excellent adventure in the Middle East and the costs of world-wide American empire. We get some things right. We get many wrong.
In a nation of laws and in a nation governed by elected representatives there is indeed collective responsibility. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. We are the population and for better (and often far, far worse) we are the government.
If it isn't working out so well we only have ourselves to blame.
The tea-party phenomenon is in part resistance to the concept of group responsibility but more significantly, in my view, it is wearing that tired old shawl of victimhood. Most unbecoming in an upper-middle class, educated caucasian demographic. The most privileged population on the entire planet.
"The world has gone to hell in a handbasket. But it certainly isn't any of my doing'.
Whoa there Arthurstone.
ReplyDeleteI'm not guilty of auto manufacturers not building reliable, affordable electric cars either.
And forgive me if I sound right wing on this, I don't appreciate auto manufacturers demanding government largess to build them.
Build a good one that the middle class can afford and we'll buy it. Right now our only choice, unless of course we are so good hearted and caring for our planet that 40 grand for a Chevy Volt, or $37,000 for a hybrid which burns gas after the bateries lose their charge is our choice.
I can buy another 07 Ford Fusion for around 11 grand at my local dealer. And only lose at most 10 miles a gallon on the highway. Maybe four in the city. I can buy a lot of gas for the the difference in price.
We make do with what we have to choose from and what we can afford. That's not my fault. That's the way it is.
I haven't said any of us is 'guilty' of anything.
ReplyDeleteI have only said we are all of us responsible for the mess we find ourselves in.
And to suggest we are powerless and helpless prey for big oil or big automobile is silly.
We make our own choices. That's what personal responsibility is.
Funny though how completely the thread of the personal automobile is woven into the fabric of American society.
A 21st century update for the rugged individualist of American myth:
"When they pry the car keys from my cold dead fingers..."
Great discussion. We had a real opportunity to develop alternative energy sources and better mileage for our autos in the late '70s after we felt the effects of the fuel shortage.
ReplyDeleteI do remember this:
"The solution of our energy crisis can also help us to conquer the crisis of the spirit in our country," the president said, asking Americans to join him in adapting to a new age of limits.
"In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but by what one owns." J. Carter
A large number of Americans are child-like and will not accept responsibility for the train wreck of consumerism that causes our problems.
Everyone wants to get rich quick, hence the "Flip This House or Building" mentality. A perfectly functional teevee set has to be replaced by a gigantic screen and something called a BlueRay. iPads, iPods, iPhones all this stuff doesn't enrich anyone's life--buying it just makes us poorer. And we all have read about the massive credit card debt Americans carry. No savings, no insurance, and now no jobs.
The American dream of spending our way to happiness was a a dream of corporations--they got us to spend ourselves into debt while they thought up more ways for us to be discontented.
I stopped buying into that mentality a long time ago.
Arthur,
ReplyDeleteEveryone who has commented on this thread, has or is, taking responsibility for their individual energy consumption. Yes, and I agree that we must clean up the gulf.
But the gulf represents, as does the Wall Street meltdown, the incompetency of arrogance and the hubris of greed.
In case you have not noticed the concept of responsibility and obligation are part of the ideal of the social contract.
The social contract theory was based upon the ideal of all of us sacrificing some of our freedom (from the concept of a state of nature) for the benefits of a civil society in which all of us share.
The social contract is no longer a two way street: Too few are benefitting at the expense of too many.
Its real easy to blow off the Tea Bag movement as a bunch of malcontents on the right who are not very smart...but don't forget, you have a whole bunch of liberals who have had enough also....
Name one bill or law that our government has passed in the last 30 years that improved and or moved society forward?
You can't...
Thats because the whole concept behind the Reagan Revolution and Supply side economics was to destroy the basic ideal of the social contract. Over the last 30 years our country has regressed...
We are a less civil society.
I think Bush and Cheney should be tried for treason....cut their heads off.
I have argued with Octy time and time again that we should have let Wall Street Fail and then pumped that bail out money into the local and regional banks...
We are becoming less civil and more feudal...
Thus to sit here and claim that I am obligated to bail out wall street, or that I am responsible for the Iraq War, or the Gulf Oil Spill assumes some agreement that the social contract that holds society together still exists...
....I don't believe it does. We are living on the fumes of an idea that died years ago...
Its just that liberals want to continue to believe...
I am not saying that it is the goal I wanted to achieve....it isn't but at the same time I have to call a spade a spade....
Tao-
ReplyDeleteYou and I are indeed 'obligated' to bail out Wall Street. That is a fact. The money is spent. I don't think it was the right thing to do but it has been done. We're obligated to spend the necessary money to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq as well. More lousy policy and waste of treasure and lives. But those are the facts. Unless one is ready to become a tax resister (which I am not) then one bears a share of the responsibility for the actions of our government. We're paying for it after all.
You must be confusing me with someone else as regards the Tea Party. Here's what I wrote:
"Most unbecoming in an upper-middle class, educated caucasian demographic. The most privileged population on the entire planet."
Nothing about right-wing. Nothing about 'not very smart'. A mention of victimhood and the implication of selfishness.
And this claim:
"Name one bill or law that our government has passed in the last 30 years that improved and or moved society forward?
You can't..."
Except the recent Health Reform, imperfect as legislation always is bears mentioning.
But your argument isn't with me Tao.
I agree that GWB & Draft Dodger
Dick should be tried. They should have been impeached in 2003. I agree that the few are prospering at the expense of the many. I agree the social contract is in disrepair.
So why wasn't GWB and his cabal charged and tried?
We didn't demand it. We didn't elect legislators with enough spine to stand up for our values.
We Americans are lazy, ill-informed and complacent. We are bought off by the blandishments of our consumer society, frightened by the vast exaggerations of danger from our 'enemies' and so incurious about the world and our rightful place in it that we accept with barely a murmur the lies our leaders (in business & in government) tell us.
To anyone commenting,
ReplyDeleteIf the average bloke or blokette isn't likely to make enlightened choices -- I mean ones that might really make a big difference for the environment -- what then is the answer when we ask how things might improve at the society-wide level?
As for Shaw's Jimmy Carter comment, I'm sympathetic, but his remarks seem kind of nostalgic to me -- was there ever really a time when we were "defined by what we do," or is that a wishful construction on his part? I am a hard sell when it comes to "we used to have selves, but now we don't; we used to be authentic, but now we aren't" claims.
But I agree with the idea that buying things one can't afford -- and, worse yet, making a lifestyle out of it -- is an awful idea. Still and again, I would be careful not to go farther than that and claim that the simple desire to "have more things" is in itself wicked or that some of those things might not be rather nice to have -- provided one can afford them and provided we aren't ruining the planet in the making and getting of them, which is a big if....
You raise an excellent point Dino.
ReplyDelete""In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but by what one owns." J. Carter
The older I get the less I believe there was anything remotely like 'the good old days'.
We weren't any better then and there's no point in trying to go back to what we never were anyway. The problem is that we have become so adept at leaving our mark on the planet (progress) that it is a little unsettling as we are able to observe in real time our disastrous effect on the planet.
But give the old-timers their due. Among an endless list of accomplishments they were able to exterminate most of the aboriginal population, the bison, the passenger pigeon & turn the vast grasslands of the great plains into a dust bowl.
You forgot to add selfishly self absorbed to your list of what America has become Arthurstone. Except for me of course. They can raise my taxes and stop offshore drilling if it means higher oil prices also.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem looking in the mirror.
I am obviously in a mood to just argue with everyone including myself...
ReplyDeleteDino...things have changed. 30 years ago when I was 22 life was totally different than what it is today and that means that we have changed also because we have to react and adjust to the world around us.
First off, we seem to have a lot more people in our lives, with the internet and cable news we are really just overwhelmed by the world around us...and I cannot help but believe that by knowing so much more so quickly that we have made our own personal lives irrelevant.
I remember when watching the news was an hour long activity, at the most, in a day. If you read the paper then of course it was a little longer. Now, we are searching the internet, have things flash through our lives in nanoseconds and I cannot help but believe that has made each and everyone of us more neurotic, more hyper, and more depressed.
I remember when the phone would ring and that was a BIG deal. Now, we have our cell phones and it seems to be all everyone does. I had a meeting this morning and when we took a little break EVERYONE except myself took their phones so they could check on things and follow up on things...
I just shook my head because the meeting was not a cabinet meeting and I find it really hard to believe that the folks I was meeting with were that critical to their organizations that they have to remain in contact at all times...
We have to acknowledge that our society has changed, technology has made tremendous changes to our lives and some of them I fear have not been all that positive.
If our society has changed then we have changed....
"Suburban & exurban sprawl filled with housing developments with perfect, chemically enhanced lawns. Cars for every member of the family."
ReplyDeleteWell that's it, really. The decision - Eisenhower's decision to build the highway system prompted the flight to the suburbs and the 50 mile daily commute and the death of passenger rail and tearing up of electric inter-urban systems.
Yes, my car is powered by good old 93 octane but I drive it only about 5k per year. When I was commuting, it used to by 30 - 40K per year in stop and go traffic. Then I gave it up and worked from home.
But just look at the major roads going in and out of cities with millions of cars sitting there burning fuel and you'll see the problem we need to address.
Florida is a wet sponge, but we drained it to grow sugar and raise cattle and we waste a third of our drinking water on watering lawns which don't like to grow here and need all kinds of fertilizer.
We talk as though we had to live like the Amish to stop being so wasteful and we waste words on token silliness like unplugging cell phone chargers while we ignore the huge things that got us where we are.
Yes, we've changed. We don't play outdoors, we drive and we hang out in malls and we call people "tree huggers" as though trees were silly things that got in the way of parking lots and shopping centers: the "real" world.
Great post. I feel the same way. If I could afford a "green car" I would. The corporations and corporate government have done a great job keeping us without many options when it comes to choosing a "green car."
ReplyDeleteI don't feel any blame for this incident. I've been busting my ass as much as I can afford financially to be a good caretaker of the environment. So, yeah I'm not taking this shit either.
The green lawns ideal is one that bugs me too. I live out West in Colorado where grass lawns aren't native either. I'm all for xeriscaping where one uses only native plants to decorate the lawn.
ReplyDeleteI see the green lawn ideal as an extension of the delusional "American Dream" idea, which is clearly based on excessive materialism. It has turned into the "American Nightmare."
Try cultivating clover, water grass and crabgrass like I do HBW. It requires no fertilizer and little maintainance.
ReplyDeleteBP is going bankrupt. The problem is that in the USA, SUV sales are up for May 2010. People don't make rational choices. Government regulation of production is needed.
ReplyDelete@Truth. I'll put anything in that causes less water depletion.
ReplyDeleteWhat a mentally invigorating discussion! Many observations catch my eye but I am particularly struck by Rocky's astute distinction between guilt and responsibility. Are we all guilty for the environmental ills that plague us? I don't think so, but we are all responsible and it is up to each of us to act and react in order to change the status quo.We are the government. Without us, there is no such thing as government. Who are we waiting on to solve our problems?
ReplyDelete