Revolutions everywhere--in the middle east, in the middle west. But there is a difference: in the middle east, the protesters are marching for democracy; in the middle west, they're protesting against it.Actually, it sounds to me like the public employees in Wisconsin are demonstrating so that they can keep getting their voices heard, and so the government doesn't gain more control over their lives. Really, it sounds kind of like "democracy" to me.
But maybe I'm misreading the situation up there. Go on, Joe.
I mean, Isn't it, well, a bit ironic that the protesters in Madison, blocking the state senate chamber, are chanting "Freedom, Democracy, Union" while trying to prevent a vote? Isn't it ironic that the Democratic Senators have fled the democratic process?Isn't it interesting That the Senate Republicans want to force through a bill to strip away decades of rights, and only allow it three days of debate? Why is it that they're in such a hurry again?
An election was held in Wisconsin last November. The Republicans won. In a democracy, there are consequences to elections and no one, not even the public employees unions, are exempt from that.Absolutely right! There was an election! And because of that, you people have to lose your civil rights! That's just logic!
(You know, it's funny. I've been hearing that quote from the Right a lot lately. "Elections have consequences." It's funny, though. You'd think that if they really believed it, they'd have been saying it after the 2008 elections, wouldn't you? But I digress.)
There are no guarantees that labor contracts, including contracts governing the most basic rights of unions, can't be renegotiated, or terminated for that matter.Uhh... Joe? Isn't that the point here? The unions want to be able to renegotiate as needed. The governor wants to take that right away from them.
Oh, yeah. And by the way, "contracts can be terminated"? (I reworded that a little; the double negative bothered me.) Yes, they can. But, being a contract, the courts get to step in, and if it turns out that one side is not "acting in good faith," they get to face penalties for being a lying bag of douche.
That's the point of a contract, isn't it?
And it seems to me that Governor Scott Walker's basic requests are modest ones--asking public employees to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, though still far less than most private sector employees do.Well, yeah. When you factor in all the private sector employees who don't even have heath insurance, sure. (That's about 46 million people nationwide, incidentally.)
But here's the point you're missing, Joey. "Governor Scott Walker's basic requests" - what he's asking for now. Because he's also taking away any ability to argue later, when he gets completely unreasonable.
And he will. See, Scott Walker has always been against unions. He longs for the days when the worker had no rights, and the employer could pay slave wages and fire for no reason. It's been a dream of his for years.
But again, I digress.
When I covered local government in New York 30 years ago, the school janitors (then paid a robust $60,000 plus per year)...OK, hang on here for just a minute.
You're saying that thirty years ago, a janitor was paid almost twice what he is now? Because the current median salary for a janitor in New York is $33,483. And in 30 years, without adjusting for inflation, janitors are earning 44% less than they did in the 80's?
Man, that union sucks!
(Quick math check - 60,000 - 33,483 = 26,517 / 60,000 = 44.195% - does that sound right to everybody?)
I'll skip a little here, while Klein spends about a paragraph whining about how mean unions are. I mean, I could point out the backbreaking demands of the industrial Barons of the 1800s, leading to the formation of labor unions, which were opposed by those privileged elite millionaires who hired thugs to yadda yadda yadda...
Nobody cares. Rich people want to stay rich, and don't care who they have to destroy to do that. If you don't know this history, you're probably too stupid to care.
But that does bring us to this:
Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed...of the public?Uh... no, Joey, that would be the government. You know, like millionaire governor Scott Walker and his billionaire backers. How is that hard to understand?
But then Joey just gets stupid.
Despite their questionable provenance, public unions can serve an important social justice role, guaranteeing that a great many underpaid workers--school bus drivers, janitors (outside of New York City), home health care workers--won't be too severely underpaid. That role will be kept intact in Wisconsin. In any given negotiation, I'm rooting for the union to win the highest base rates of pay possible...and for management to win the least restrictive work rules and guidelines governing how much truly creative public employees can be paid.Oh, god. I swear we've covered this. Read back up to the top. I'll wait.
OK, now, since Walker wants to remove any ability of the unions to bargain for anything except base salaries... what the hell are you saying here? That they'll win on topics that they can't even argue about anymore?
You're an idiot, Klein. In fact, let's go further than that.
The basic theme here is that public employees are overpaid. According to a study by Jeffrey Keefe, professor of Labor and Employment Relations at Rutgers, public employees are compensated 3.75% less than similarly skilled and educated private-sector counterparts.
And, in fact, Scott Walker is trying to say that he has to do all this to "save" Wisconsin, to plug a big hole in the budget. But you know the funny part? Wisconsin was doing fine (in fact, they had a budget surplus) until Scott Walker became governor, and created a crisis by giving the state's money away to his cronies.
So, basically, Walker is a lying, thieving bag of fuck, with all the integrity of a rabid weasel.
And here you are, Joey, supporting him. What does that make you?
Klein is a fucking idiot.
ReplyDeleteOn Wisconsin!
WASF,
JzB
once I was in a union
ReplyDeleteone that could not strike
those silly government unions
like no wheels upon a bike
this union was also ruthless
it did not give it only stole
selfish wanton aggrandizement
was this entity's only role
at first I was indignant
this union that I'd berate
this parasitic organ
that Americans love to hate
but in my haste to anger
many things I did not count
and as I thought about it
the list began to mount
40 hour week
overtime
vacation time
sick time
personal time
benefits (health care)
pensions
all of this because of unions
men and women oh so brave
who bestowed upon this nation
that no man should be a slave
40 hour week
ReplyDeleteovertime
vacation time
sick time
personal time
benefits (health care)
pensions
Hmmm - sounds like Comminism ta me. People should work 6 days a week, just like it says inna Bible.
I woke up this morning angry as hell over this Wisconsin mess … and found myself on the verge of going thermonuclear.
ReplyDeleteLet me clarify what has my tentacles in a twist. There was a time when our legislative process practiced the fine art of compromise and consensus such that the interests of diverse stakeholders were heard. No longer!
The goddamn GOP has this “my way or the highway” mentality that regards all tax money is THEIR tax money. Well, it is my tax money too. They think their priorities should be everyone’s priorities. I want MY government to reflect my core values and priorities too.
I resent their hypocritical attitude that trades on pious buzzwords like “democracy and freedom” when the first thing their candidates do when they get into office is persecute and oppress the loyal opposition. The Republicans are following the Grover Norquist playbook. Successive GOP administrations cut taxes and doubled the deficit as a pretext for dismantling the progressive gains that generations of Americans fought for. That is the way they do business ... fascist pigs!
I resent their telling me how my tax money should be spent, what church dogma becomes the law of the land, or how I should act in the privacy of MY own bedroom. And I resent the Republican war against the social safety net, against environmental protection, against healthcare and women's reproductive rights, against infrastructure investment, against regulations that prevent fraud and abuse committed by those who bought and sold their goddamn party.
There is an angry backlash building on my side of the political aisle, and the fucking Republicans better be damn careful in how they tread. When I awoke this morning, there was a distinct taste of blood in the water.
Yes, Joe Klein is an idiot!
Klein is a self absorbed idiot who should have a bubble next to his head with "blah, blah, blah..." written in it.
ReplyDeleteI remember when Reagan busted the backs of the unions and they have been struggling ever since. Unions aren't perfect and, in fact, some have been fraught with corruption and gangland ties but then again, some of the big employers for which unions were formed in the first place were fraught with corruption and gangland ties.
Union members in Wisconsin simply want the ability to negotiate and not be at the mercy of whatever political hack is in office.
Seems like people all over the world are no longer going to take it and revolution is in the air.
"The times they are a changin'...."
The GOP has so successfully vilified unions over the past couple of decades that even ordinary people seem to think of them as a communist plot against motherhood and apple pie.
ReplyDeleteYes, some commentator-folk seem to have bought into the Republican view of what elections are for: you win, and then you get to do whatever you want without opposition. Unless, of course, you happen to be Democrats, in which case you didn't really win and you probably aren't from around these parts anyhow.
What's going on in Wisconsin sounds to this dinosaur like unadulterated union-busting. It isn't even a little bit difficult to see that. To me, it scans as a classic attempt to pit one part of the working and middle classes against the other. Because EVERYBODY with less than a billion dollars should be miserable, powerless, and insecure. That's just the way things should be, right? It's only fair....
There is a case to be made that public employees should get good compensation and benefits but not a package so much better than private-sector counterparts that it's embarrassing -- like retiring fifteen years earlier while still earning more money, etc., if any are doing that. (By the way, the traditional model was that if you worked for, say, the U.S. Post Office, you didn't get paid a huge salary, but you got job security, very good benefits and early retirement. It was a trade-off and understood as such. I don't know how that equation works in other public service sectors.) Both taxpayers and public employees should get a fair deal. But that doesn't sound like what's going on here at all. If you get rid of collective bargaining, the very concept of a union becomes meaningless.
All,
ReplyDeletePerhaps the active verb here is "atomize," the strategy of "divide and conquer," a method of reducing the opposition into tiny bits so they cannot organize and mount an more effective and cohesive counter defense. That is why I'm sticking with the unions.
With several relatives teaching in the badger state, I received some of the wording on their signs:
ReplyDelete“Governor Walker, you are smarter than a fifth-grade, because you sure know how to ÷ Wisconsin”
“Welcome to Wississippi”
“100 percent of teachers have more education that Scott Walker”
“Captain Kirk, time to beam up Scotty…he can’t hold it together down here.”
“That’s not the way Wisconsin Works, Governor!”
“Jesus Christ was a carpenter, Pontius Pilate was a Governor!”
“Walker is a Weasel, Not a Badger!”
“Daddy, can you tell me what it was like when workers had rights?”- this was pinned to a small infant.
(Carried by a child) “My Mommy says that Governor Walker’s plan means we might not be able to afford sending me to college, but that’s O.K., because I can still be Governor"
..creative teachers to some, socialist lies to others, I guess
Powerful words, Nameless,and succinctly said. However, I do think that perhaps you owe the weasel population an apology. So, basically, Wilson is a lying, thieving bag of fuck, with all the integrity of a rabid weasel.
ReplyDeleteI continue to be flabbergasted by the Right's ability to hold two opposing beliefs at the same time: (1)government is too big, and (2) let's pass legislation that will make those unions have to accede to the power of the government. If the right wing were true to its alleged ideology, it would support the public unions in their efforts to retain power to negotiate salaries, benefits, and working conditions in the hands of the people.
The Right also appears to have no real understanding of the Democracy of which they often shout. Democracy isn't simply about majority rule. Democracy is about ensuring that just because a group has fewer numbers doesn't mean that their rights are trampled. In other words, the founding fathers that the Right invoke so readily, in spite of their own elevated socioeconomic status, rejected the notion of "might makes right" and instead designed a governmental structure intended to give voice to the powerless, rejecting the simplistic notion of majority rule. The Republicans appear to believe that winning an election conveys upon them the authority to run roughshod over the people because a significant number of voters elected them to office.
Please note: just corrected for two instances where I called him "Scott Wilson" - that's what happens when I'm still typing at midnight.
ReplyDeleteWilson -- wasn't that the name for the Volley Ball with a face painted on it in Castaway?
ReplyDeleteBetween work, school, and the gorgeous weather here in the Sunshine State, I have not taken the time to read as much as I should have on this. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm with Sheria.. there is no reason to speak ugly of the poor Weasel!
Diane Sawyer reported that the Wisconsin unions wanted to preserve their "perks". Let me repeat that: PERKS. Like health care and retirement benefits are perks!! Dian Sawyer gets perks, flies first-class, bonuses, who knows what all. PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DO NOT GET PERKS.
ReplyDeleteThe media does this, compare government workers against "average" workers. They're not, most government jobs require a college degree, in social services, often an advanced degree. PUBLIC EMPLOYEE JOBS ARE NOT COMPARABLE TO THE AVERAGE WORKER, there are no government burger-flippers.
I have been recently wondering just how far the 2% wants to push the rest of us. They forget that unlike the poor in Egypt, Lybia... OUR poor have guns!!
Retiree, SEIU Local 503
It's fortunate that these protests didn't occur in Indiana. Their GOP deputy attorney general suggested Wisconsin us "live ammunition on them."
ReplyDeleteThat may have been a warning to the unions in Indiana should they dare to exercise their Constitutionally guaranteed right.
We're not surprised, I'm sure, to see one of their own use a fascist tactic, and yet day after day after day I read about Americans who believe these fascists are qualified for political office.
Dog help us!
EX POST FACTO UNION-BUSTING:
ReplyDelete"CONGRESS SHALL NOT MAKE ANY EX POST FACTO LAW"(U.S.Constitution); Weaver vs Graham, U.S.Supreme
Court: The two determining factors of an ex post facto law are: It must be retrostective (dealing with things people lawfully have already) AND it must snatch those things away (making their situation more onerous)...
If challenged in ANY FEDERAL COURT, on the Ex Post Facto grounds, (CITING WEAVER VS GRAHAM) Walker and his Cronies are in a PERMANENT LOSE/LOSE SITUATION !!! NOT ONLY WILL THE COURT MAKE THEM FORK BACK OVER EVERYTHING THEY STOLE FROM THE PEOPLE, BUT WILL PUT A STRAIGHT-JACKET AND MUZZLE ON THEM AGAINST FUTURE ATTEMPTS...
Anonymous, I don't intend to be rude but I'm anal retentive when it comes to misinterpretation of the law. It seems to me that we have enough real issues with our legal system without misapplying its tenets.
ReplyDeleteThe case that you cite, Weaver v. Graham applies to criminal or penal laws, not to state laws dealing with rules, regulations, licensing and other civil matters. In the Weaver case, the state of Florida attempted to pass a law that changed the sentencing rules regarding good behavior during time served reducing the sentence length for prisoners and applying the new law which repealed the "good behavior" deduction to prisoners who were sentenced when the old law was in effect The prohibition is against changing the law post conviction and then going back and applying the new law to those who were sentenced under the old law. Ex post facto is a prohibition against retroactively changing the punishment standards after someone has been tried and convicted. Ex post facto law has no bearing on the Wisconsin change in law regarding unions. States change non-criminal and non-penal laws on a regular basis without challenge.
The following is the holding in Weaver: A Florida statute repealing an earlier statute and reducing the amount of "gain time" for good conduct and obedience to prison rules deducted from a convicted prisoner's sentence is unconstitutional as an ex post facto law as applied to petitioner, whose crime was committed before the statute's enactment. Pp. 450 U. S. 28-36.