Basically, she'd given a talk explaining that when men sexualize her, it creeps her out. So, when a guy (later established to have been present at that talk) followed her onto an elevator and asked her up to his room, she was uncomfortable.
And that blew up, with a lot of people trying to claim that she was calling all men rapists, and women should just chill out, and on and on. Because... well, because men are dicks, mostly. I should know - I happen to be one myself. Some of us repress that side of our personalities, but far too many don't.
(In the midst of all this exaggeration, a world-famous atheist tried to poo-poo the whole thing, essentially saying that women in Muslim countries have it far worse, so women in America should stop complaining. You know, something like claiming that people are blown up in Jerusalem a lot, so if you get knifed in Boston, just walk it off and quit whining.)
Now, I just have one thing to say about this (of course, I'm going to take way too long saying it, but that's just me). And, actually, it breaks into two parts.
First, that's not what she said!! Christ, the video is right up above here, and I told you where to look! Go watch the fucking thing!
* ahem *
But (he continues in a calmer voice), since you brought it up, yes, women do, in fact, get raped in elevators. In fact, one guy in New York enjoyed it so much that he went out and tried it again. Which inspired copycats.
(Pro-tip: when googling for examples of "elevator rape," be sure that SafeSearch is on. That also happens to be a twisted fantasy for some guys. Which should actually tell you something.)
Also, two fairly common justifications for this dickish attitude on the part of guys:
1. Well, elevator rape isn't very common!So, fuck you very much, you fat, privileged, self-important pricks. Women get raped every day. And sometimes it happens in elevators.
Yeah, asshole. Neither is homosexual rape. Do you want to be the lucky one?
2. It's stupid to worry, because elevators have security cameras!
OK, rich boy. First, no, many of them don't - cameras are expensive. Second, many of the places that have cameras don't have them monitored in real time - that's also expensive. And third, even where the camera has been installed (and here's a dirty little secret of the security business for you), they often don't work. It's just that the people in charge don't want you to know that: they're hoping for a placebo effect on crime.
I hope that nobody you care about becomes a statistic.
"You know, something like claiming that people are blown up in Jerusalem a lot, so if you get knifed in Boston, just walk it off and quit whining.)"
ReplyDeleteNot 100% pertinent, and I don't know about Boston, but despite the well-reported bombings that occur in Jerusalem, you are far more likely to be killed by a stranger in New York than in Jerusalem.
I wouldn't live in either place, but I guess I should add sex/gender to the list of subjects that can't be talked about without making the dogs bark. I won't mention the other ones. Once burned, you can't fool me, as George or Sarah might say.
ReplyDeleteYes, she said "when they sexualize me like that" Which is different than appreciative looks or other polite ways we have of showing - well, appreciation for attractiveness of all sorts.
There was nothing in her account that showed anything but normal suspicion of someone inviting a stranger to his room at 2 in the morning in an elevator, but like mentioning you're not comfortable being forced to recite religious oaths, the loonies, the idiots, the drooling rabble yearning to strangle us all will react as they do. Hell, some strange guy in a leather trench coat asking me up to his room from an empty elevator at 2 AM in an Istanbul hotel is going to creep me out too, even if sexuality didn't enter into the picture.
But grind their little axes they will and on every story and at every opportunity. Oil spill? Well, too many safety regulations! Same insanity.
Where I do disagree is with the idea that there's a male gender bias in our genderless language that drives misogyny. The Default gender in Chinese is "it" and they have no gendered pronouns. Until the Commies arrived they were at the top of the male dominated society list. Refudiate the whole idea, I do.
In German "Maedchen" or girl is neuter. In Russia, it's Mother Russia, in Germany it's the Vaterland - so what? I think we read far too much into that and look too little at our religious traditions which are as paternalistic and often strongly mysongenistic as they can be. Man created first and them woman to help him with the dishes and laundry and of course a priest is always a man while a priestess is something shameful and probably akin to prostitution.
But that's another grindstone, of course and I don't want to set it to spinning. I mean, fool me twice, I won't burn my fingers. Ya Betcha.
Well said, Nameless,and I find your analysis to be right on target in all respects.
ReplyDeleteI'll start out by confessing that I'm not a very good feminist. I'm not sure that it's humanly possible for gender and sexuality to be erased from all interactions (except actual sex, of course). And I may be the only woman on the internet who thinks this is blown way, way out of proportion. Yes, using an elevator as a venue for asking someone to come to your hotel room to have coffee is creepy. But it isn't rape. Not even close.
ReplyDeleteRebecca Watson is internet-famous in atheist circles, and one of the unfortunate side-effects of any kind of fame is that people are going to seem creepy. If you are broadcasting to, or performing for any audience, this causes people you don't know to feel like they know you. This leads to awkward encounters. I'm not endorsing this fact, just acknowledging it as an unavoidable part of human nature.
If you are a featured speaker at a conference, you can probably expect complete strangers to approach you. If you are a cute, nerdy girl, you can expect that a good bit of your audience consists of socially awkward males who find you approachable because you seem a kindred spirit, but they lack the ability to do so in a tactful manner in front of a crowd of people. Look, I'm gregarious as hell on the internet, but I've struggled with extreme social awkwardness all my life. One of the hallmarks of this is that when talking to two or more people, I find it difficult to find an opening in which to speak, I always feel like I'm interrupting or stumbling over myself.
I'm not condoning Creepy Elevator Guy's behavior, just saying I understand -- and that I may have done equally creepy things myself, which involved contrived situations in which I'd be able to get someone's attention without competing with a group of people (although, as a woman, I was able to do them without anyone thinking they were going to get raped).
Eagle - yeah. And you're more likely to get killed by a gun in America than pretty much anywhere in the world. It's a great country, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteCapt - I'm sorry I creeped you out in Istanbul. Wasn't my intention. But that was my best coat.
Sheria - thank you.
Theosaurus - that's true. Part of my point there was, yes, it's been blown out of proportion. See the 5th paragraph under the video. It's all in bold.
The other part was just generalized railing at the crowd of Toys-R-Us boys, who can't seem to accept that Women's Lib didn't actually destroy society. They're MEN, by golly, and they're going to act like it!
Go here. Ignore the column, and go straight to the comments.
The first one's OK, some girl calling herself "lenona"
The second one, by "Crid" is... interesting
The third one, by "Sio" - hmmm... well, he's got some issues.
And then we have "Kirstin" - ummm... really? This was written by a woman? "Soon, you'll be old and ugly, and you'll just WISH guys were hitting on you in elevators! Oh, and children are starving, so you're a privileged whore!" (I exaggerate for comic effect. But read it and tell me that's not what "she" is saying.)
It's that next comment where it all goes downhill. By "Jesper." Here's how he starts.
Jeez, what meathead. Skepchick, that is. Look, I'm 6"2, I'm lean and I'm strong. If I'm in an elevator with a woman asking her out, I'm not trying to rape her. If I wanted to rape her, I would. Like the average woman can put up any kind of resitance to a man who wants to rape her.
Yeah. Good work, Jesper! That makes everything all better. And that's not even close to the worst that's out there.
Mr. Eugenides, the Smyrna merchant
ReplyDeleteUnshaven, with a pocket full of currants
C.i.f. London: documents at sight,
Asked me in demotic French
To luncheon at the Cannon Street Hotel
Followed by a weekend at the Metropole.
So that was you?
They weren't currants, they were dates.
ReplyDeleteAnd that was a very difficult time in my life. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.