If you've been following this story as assiduously as I have, then you probably have some very strong opinions ... as I have. Consider this an open thread.
“Dagan, who called Netanyahu's policies 'destructive to the future and security of Israel,' will speak at rally demanding regime change at Tel Aviv's Rabin Square.”
In some countries like Russia, such things can get you killed and of course Fox News has often held up Putin as a model leader to be preferred over that Kenyan Weakling Tyrant Muslim empty suit raised in another country who hates America. Perhaps Nattybumpo will be honored as well if he has his opponent killed. I think Obama is wise to ignore that conniving SOB. Of course Fox will keep using the word "feckless" in the attempt to feck him -- and all of us too -- yahooo!
Do the names we're given determine our personalities? I'm not sure whether Netanyahu means given by god or given to god, but I'd be happy to fulfill the latter. He seems to act as though the former were true.
Yes, god is called Yahoo in the bible. No wonder the pious won't say it out loud. It would be hard otherwise to pray without giggling - I mean holy Yahoo! One nation under Yahoo, in Yahoo we trust, etc. etc Turn it around and we have Yahoonatan or as the Romans pronounced it Yaysoos. Don't know about the Greeks, but Yaysoos sounds like Zayoos and that means Zeus with whom there has been some confusion I guess. After all Zeus' son Dionysus was born of a mortal virgin -- a god who died. Perhaps identifiable with Dimuzi, the Sumerian god who died and was still mourned by Jews millennia later who named a calendar month to memorialize him. Ezra complained about it as I'm sure they taught y'all in Sunday School. Sunday of course being named for Sol Invictus who was identified with Apollo or Dionysus and perhaps Mithras - - around and around it goes.
Well, don't things evolve!
Dagan? That's probably a Hebrew rendition of Dagon, the Mesopotamian god whose symbol is a fish, and I suppose there are many fishy things going on down at Mossad headquarters. I have a habit of waving at fellow Dagonites - you know, those people with the fish on their cars. I wave with one finger to confirm that Dagon is lonely, the one and only!
Well let this be a lesson to you kids. three cups of coffee in the morning is too damned much -- you're Dagon right, I'm babbling like a Yahoo.
I can't help but think about what if. What if negotiations fail? Apparently even Obama only has a 50% expectation of success.
Iran's government has shown itself to be lacking in integrity (not that our own is stellar) and virulentlly anti Israell and anti West, especially the especially the USA, aka The Great Satan.
I hope an agreement is reached and it contains readily verifiable compliance mechanisms. Hopefully the administration has a plan B cause it likely will be needed.
BTW, didn't watch Bibi but hear his remarks were well received by the "Bomb Iran Back To the Stone Age" advocates.
The five (5) permanent members of the UN Security Council - known as the P5+1 (because Germany is the sixth country in talks with Iran) - are joined in this diplomatic effort. Therefore I should point this out:
Did Net-N-Yahoo go to Russia to address the Duma, godummit?
Did Net-N-Yahoo go to China for a dish of Moo-Goo-Gai-Pan?
Did Net-N-Yahoo visit the United Kingdom for a breakfast of bangers-n-mash?
Or to France or Germany?
See my point? This was NOT just a breach of protocol but another partisan hack job orchestrated by Speaker Boehner to undermine the Executive branch. And it puts me in a very inky mood!
The entire focus of the GOP and its constituency is to undermine Obama regardless of any cost or any danger or any notion of patriotism or love of country. If it means siding with the super hawks or the pacifists or both, no effort will be spared to make Obama seem incompetent and dangerous.
Our history with embargoes and the use of economic force and military bluster suggests the ultimate failure of depending on swashbuckling, chest beating and dick waving. Yes, it appeals to the mad bombers, the heirs of the guys who wanted us to bomb the USSR and North Vietnam and invade Cuba and China and all that,. these are the same geniuses that have made Isis and Qaeda and all the rest so powerful by destroying Iraq.but I think Bibi and Beaner are simply out to get Obama by using the barbarians. Iran is not about to invade Israel any more than I'm about to step on Superman's cape. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
I believe more in plain economics than in trash talk and I don't believe you deal with a dangerous animal by backing it into a corner. Ultimately they can build a bomb regardless of anything we do short of a massive invasion and even then. Look at North Korea or Pakistan. I believe in showing them the economic advantage of not doing that, of not sponsoring terrorism.
Netty BooBoo has the bomb and the means to deliver it. He presides over a government where religious extremists have a stranglehold. Why should we trust him? Certainly Iran knows this and Israel's nuclear power argues for an Iranian bomb. Think ol' Yahoo is afraid of us talking to him about checking his weapons at the door?
Bibi the Bomb is up for election. Maybe we should meddle in their election process the way he's trying to stir up the opposition here? Really, handing over the control of diplomatic relations to the trolls and saboteurs in congress is not something I think our founders would approve of.
Sure, I see your point (O) CT (O) PUS and it is valid. Further, thinking people all across America understand the breach of protocol. As for undermining the President and his diplomatic efforts; are you surprised?
I am very suspicious of government and executive power by nature. As I see it we're just pawns in a big game of chess controlled by the rich and powerful.
"Thinking people" seems to include a panel on Bloomberg TV this morning. A Harvard Prof was there to assure us that the way to deal with dictators was to interfere with the way they isolate their people and experience shows that it's harder to get away with calling us the Great Satan is to make sure their people see our tourists, buy our goods and our ideas. It's funny but when you hear from financial gurus not employed by the Kochs or the Murdochs they don't seem to think the same way about Obama's "policies."
The Net-N-Yahoo misadventure offends me on so many levels. Let me count the ways:
1. I do not want my country goaded into a PROXY WAR – or lending military support - on behalf of any foreign government whose national self-interest is not fully compatible with our own foreign policy objectives; 2. A proxy war with Iran raises the order of magnitude, in terms of bloodshed and precious treasure, far beyond the cost of anything misspent in Iraq; 3. It is not in our national self-interest to further alienate Iranians whose trust we betrayed in 1953 with the CIA-orchestrated coup that overthrew of Iran’s first democratically elected leader; 4. Iran has a relatively young population – virtually 50% under 35 years of age – that is Internet savvy, Western leaning, moderate, and most likely to change the future course and direction of their country when the old guard dies off.
The neo-con from Jerusalem (read: the Dick Cheney of the Middle East) wants us to squander away all prospects for a peaceful future in this troubled part of the world. Screw Net-N-Yahoo!
Bibi is, I think more in his election prospects than in anything else and apparently this has given him a boost in his domestic ratings. I think the only people who support his bluster are those in the US who just hate Obama and I think most of what I read today emphasizes that we are being offered no alternative proposals by any of these bloviators, John Wayne being long dead. Certainly no one wants Iran to have nukes, but our belligerence makes it seem more desirable for them.
I agree very much here and we can't forget how we supported Saddam Hussein against Iran and his use of Gas and other atrocities. Still the right wants to rule the world by fear and intimidation and to do it by reiterating failed programs and policies - just like the Ayatollahs they are.
"we supported Saddam Hussein against Iran and his use of Gas and other atrocities."
Good point. I had forgotten about American duplicity.
Certainly no one wants Iran to have nukes ..."
Well, I had been thinking of this too and offer another viewpoint. Suppose Iran did develop a nuclear weapon? They would join the club of nuclear nations for whom the concept of "mutually assured destruction" would apply - just as it applied to the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. during the cold war. With two nuclear-equiped nations aiming nukes at them, I can't see Iran going rogue with a preemptive attack (rhetoric doesn't count).
I can't see that happening either, but MAD depends on the natural reluctance to die. That's not always the case with religious extremists. Mutually assured destruction it would be however seeing Israel's approximately 200 nukes. I don't want to have to trust them or to trust that some loonies won't get control over their military. From what I read, other nations in the area aren't too keen on a nuclear Iran either and I'd welcome some pressure from them rather than the US alone swaggering around trying to rule the world with fear as some hawks dream about. Of course a Nuclear Iran would promote thoughts about a nuclear Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc.
It only counts if a madman got his finger on the launch button.
The world seems to be getting more dangerous rather than less. We share responsibility for this. Hoping the President and his State Department does indeed have some "magic" to work.
With some of the stories getting air time recently, it seems like we were much closer to nuclear war than most of us thought on several occasions back during the Cold War.
Remember how optimistic people were when the Soviet Union fell apart? The "peace dividend" and all that?
I just hope Iran can understand that having the Bomb isn't going to solve any problems for them and might well get them all killed. The real danger in the Middle East can't be dealt with with nukes. How would you bomb al Qaeda or Isis or stop an internal revolution?
How would you bomb al Qaeda or Isis or stop an internal revolution?
You'd have to blank nuke the entire region, and of course that is not an option.
As for internal revolution, I have two thoughts: 1) not our business, 2) we just might be facing one of own on if things continue as they have been going.
We welcome civil discourse from all people but express no obligation to allow contributors and readers to be trolled. Any comment that sinks to the level of bigotry, defamation, personal insults, off-topic rants, and profanity will be deleted without notice.
In today’s edition of Haaretz, Jerusalem’s leading newspaper, this report, Ex-Mossad chief Meir Dagan to headline anti-Netanyahu rally:
ReplyDelete“Dagan, who called Netanyahu's policies 'destructive to the future and security of Israel,' will speak at rally demanding regime change at Tel Aviv's Rabin Square.”
In some countries like Russia, such things can get you killed and of course Fox News has often held up Putin as a model leader to be preferred over that Kenyan Weakling Tyrant Muslim empty suit raised in another country who hates America. Perhaps Nattybumpo will be honored as well if he has his opponent killed. I think Obama is wise to ignore that conniving SOB. Of course Fox will keep using the word "feckless" in the attempt to feck him -- and all of us too -- yahooo!
ReplyDeleteDo the names we're given determine our personalities? I'm not sure whether Netanyahu means given by god or given to god, but I'd be happy to fulfill the latter. He seems to act as though the former were true.
Yes, god is called Yahoo in the bible. No wonder the pious won't say it out loud. It would be hard otherwise to pray without giggling - I mean holy Yahoo! One nation under Yahoo, in Yahoo we trust, etc. etc Turn it around and we have Yahoonatan or as the Romans pronounced it Yaysoos. Don't know about the Greeks, but Yaysoos sounds like Zayoos and that means Zeus with whom there has been some confusion I guess. After all Zeus' son Dionysus was born of a mortal virgin -- a god who died. Perhaps identifiable with Dimuzi, the Sumerian god who died and was still mourned by Jews millennia later who named a calendar month to memorialize him. Ezra complained about it as I'm sure they taught y'all in Sunday School. Sunday of course being named for Sol Invictus who was identified with Apollo or Dionysus and perhaps Mithras - - around and around it goes.
Well, don't things evolve!
Dagan? That's probably a Hebrew rendition of Dagon, the Mesopotamian god whose symbol is a fish, and I suppose there are many fishy things going on down at Mossad headquarters. I have a habit of waving at fellow Dagonites - you know, those people with the fish on their cars. I wave with one finger to confirm that Dagon is lonely, the one and only!
Well let this be a lesson to you kids. three cups of coffee in the morning is too damned much -- you're
Dagon right, I'm babbling like a Yahoo.
I can't help but think about what if. What if negotiations fail? Apparently even Obama only has a 50% expectation of success.
ReplyDeleteIran's government has shown itself to be lacking in integrity (not that our own is stellar) and virulentlly anti Israell and anti West, especially the especially the USA, aka The Great Satan.
I hope an agreement is reached and it contains readily verifiable compliance mechanisms. Hopefully the administration has a plan B cause it likely will be needed.
BTW, didn't watch Bibi but hear his remarks were well received by the "Bomb Iran Back To the Stone Age" advocates.
We shall simply have to wait and see.
The five (5) permanent members of the UN Security Council - known as the P5+1 (because Germany is the sixth country in talks with Iran) - are joined in this diplomatic effort. Therefore I should point this out:
ReplyDeleteDid Net-N-Yahoo go to Russia to address the Duma, godummit?
Did Net-N-Yahoo go to China for a dish of Moo-Goo-Gai-Pan?
Did Net-N-Yahoo visit the United Kingdom for a breakfast of bangers-n-mash?
Or to France or Germany?
See my point? This was NOT just a breach of protocol but another partisan hack job orchestrated by Speaker Boehner to undermine the Executive branch. And it puts me in a very inky mood!
The entire focus of the GOP and its constituency is to undermine Obama regardless of any cost or any danger or any notion of patriotism or love of country. If it means siding with the super hawks or the pacifists or both, no effort will be spared to make Obama seem incompetent and dangerous.
ReplyDeleteOur history with embargoes and the use of economic force and military bluster suggests the ultimate failure of depending on swashbuckling, chest beating and dick waving. Yes, it appeals to the mad bombers, the heirs of the guys who wanted us to bomb the USSR and North Vietnam and invade Cuba and China and all that,. these are the same geniuses that have made Isis and Qaeda and all the rest so powerful by destroying Iraq.but I think Bibi and Beaner are simply out to get Obama by using the barbarians. Iran is not about to invade Israel any more than I'm about to step on Superman's cape. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
I believe more in plain economics than in trash talk and I don't believe you deal with a dangerous animal by backing it into a corner. Ultimately they can build a bomb regardless of anything we do short of a massive invasion and even then. Look at North Korea or Pakistan. I believe in showing them the economic advantage of not doing that, of not sponsoring terrorism.
Netty BooBoo has the bomb and the means to deliver it. He presides over a government where religious extremists have a stranglehold. Why should we trust him? Certainly Iran knows this and Israel's nuclear power argues for an Iranian bomb. Think ol' Yahoo is afraid of us talking to him about checking his weapons at the door?
Bibi the Bomb is up for election. Maybe we should meddle in their election process the way he's trying to stir up the opposition here? Really, handing over the control of diplomatic relations to the trolls and saboteurs in congress is not something I think our founders would approve of.
Sure, I see your point (O) CT (O) PUS and it is valid. Further, thinking people all across America understand the breach of protocol. As for undermining the President and his diplomatic efforts; are you surprised?
ReplyDeleteI am very suspicious of government and executive power by nature. As I see it we're just pawns in a big game of chess controlled by the rich and powerful.
Got to go. I'm missing the O'Reilly Comedy Hour.
"Thinking people" seems to include a panel on Bloomberg TV this morning. A Harvard Prof was there to assure us that the way to deal with dictators was to interfere with the way they isolate their people and experience shows that it's harder to get away with calling us the Great Satan is to make sure their people
Deletesee our tourists, buy our goods and our ideas. It's funny but when you hear from financial gurus not employed by the Kochs or the Murdochs they don't seem to think the same way about Obama's "policies."
Say hello to Lyin' Bill ;-)
The Net-N-Yahoo misadventure offends me on so many levels. Let me count the ways:
ReplyDelete1. I do not want my country goaded into a PROXY WAR – or lending military support - on behalf of any foreign government whose national self-interest is not fully compatible with our own foreign policy objectives;
2. A proxy war with Iran raises the order of magnitude, in terms of bloodshed and precious treasure, far beyond the cost of anything misspent in Iraq;
3. It is not in our national self-interest to further alienate Iranians whose trust we betrayed in 1953 with the CIA-orchestrated coup that overthrew of Iran’s first democratically elected leader;
4. Iran has a relatively young population – virtually 50% under 35 years of age – that is Internet savvy, Western leaning, moderate, and most likely to change the future course and direction of their country when the old guard dies off.
The neo-con from Jerusalem (read: the Dick Cheney of the Middle East) wants us to squander away all prospects for a peaceful future in this troubled part of the world. Screw Net-N-Yahoo!
Bibi is, I think more in his election prospects than in anything else and apparently this has given him a boost in his domestic ratings. I think the only people who support his bluster are those in the US who just hate Obama and I think most of what I read today emphasizes that we are being offered no alternative proposals by any of these bloviators, John Wayne being long dead. Certainly no one wants Iran to have nukes, but our belligerence makes it seem more desirable for them.
ReplyDeleteI agree very much here and we can't forget how we supported Saddam Hussein against Iran and his use of Gas and other atrocities. Still the right wants to rule the world by fear and intimidation and to do it by reiterating failed programs and policies - just like the Ayatollahs they are.
"we supported Saddam Hussein against Iran and his use of Gas and other atrocities."
ReplyDeleteGood point. I had forgotten about American duplicity.
Certainly no one wants Iran to have nukes ..."
Well, I had been thinking of this too and offer another viewpoint. Suppose Iran did develop a nuclear weapon? They would join the club of nuclear nations for whom the concept of "mutually assured destruction" would apply - just as it applied to the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. during the cold war. With two nuclear-equiped nations aiming nukes at them, I can't see Iran going rogue with a preemptive attack (rhetoric doesn't count).
I can't see that happening either, but MAD depends on the natural reluctance to die. That's not always the case with religious extremists. Mutually assured destruction it would be however seeing Israel's approximately 200 nukes. I don't want to have to trust them or to trust that some loonies won't get control over their military. From what I read, other nations in the area aren't too keen on a nuclear Iran either and I'd welcome some pressure from them rather than the US alone swaggering around trying to rule the world with fear as some hawks dream about. Of course a Nuclear Iran would promote thoughts about a nuclear Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc.
DeleteIt only counts if a madman got his finger on the launch button.
ReplyDeleteThe world seems to be getting more dangerous rather than less. We share responsibility for this. Hoping the President and his State Department does indeed have some "magic" to work.
With some of the stories getting air time recently, it seems like we were much closer to nuclear war than most of us thought on several occasions back during the Cold War.
ReplyDeleteRemember how optimistic people were when the Soviet Union fell apart? The "peace dividend" and all that?
I just hope Iran can understand that having the Bomb isn't going to solve any problems for them and might well get them all killed. The real danger in the Middle East can't be dealt with with nukes. How would you bomb al Qaeda or Isis or stop an internal revolution?
How would you bomb al Qaeda or Isis or stop an internal revolution?
ReplyDeleteYou'd have to blank nuke the entire region, and of course that is not an option.
As for internal revolution, I have two thoughts: 1) not our business, 2) we just might be facing one of own on if things continue as they have been going.