Sunday, January 9, 2011

6 dead in Arizona

Went out to dinner last night -- a little tiki hut place on the Fort Pierce inlet -- and everybody was glued to the TV wondering if the Saints could pull off an upset. A loud place but not a word anywhere about the blood still waiting to be cleaned up in Tucson. Not a word.

It's all been so predictable that it feels hardly worth posting about it. We're already listening to the "rush to judgment" rhetoric because after all, the guy could be a lone nut, whether or not that mysterious accomplice is apprehended. So why call it political at all? Maybe the guy just didn't like blonds or children or supermarket crowds. So why blame the Republicans for their daily "kill the traitors" passion play. I mean it was all protected speech anyway. (damn good thing we don't have hate speech laws like the Socialists.)

I mean all that hoopla about how it was the government who killed those people in Waco, not the messianic impostor / child molester and none of that rhetoric had anything to do with Tim McVeigh and associates murdering 168 people in the Murrah building. Hell no, it was the fertilizer that blew up the building and fertilizer control was the real issue, not rebel militias and hate spewing mass media.

The guy who murdered McKinley was all hopped up on Emma Goldman's anarchistic bombast. She told us that he was "president of the money kings and trust magnates." She told us that Czolgosz was a modern day Brutus, killer of tyrants ( sound familiar?) but it's better to blame the Ivor Johnson company. Hey, you don't grind the axe you wish you had, you grind the one you brought.

The protected speech of Taft supporters that spurred the certified nutjob Schrank to shoot the "tyrant" Teddy Roosevelt? Not their fault. We already know about the Tyrant Lincoln. But hey, Obama was a "tyrant" to reform health care, even just a little. and as the stateswoman Michelle Bachmann says, we have to be "armed and dangerous" because that tyrant is the most corrupt president in history. Armed and dangerous. Don't retreat, reload. Next time the guns will be loaded. Here they are - the ones with the cross hairs on them -- take a stand, take them back, but it's not our damned fault that someone was nuts enough to do what we told them to do!

My God, why hast thou forsaken me?

And I mean, why mention that we find it far too Stalinesque to provide mental health services and mandatory commitment to people who are basically only shirkers and malingerers? This just proves they don't deserve it! Besides if we can judge people insane, dangerous and incompetent we might have to enforce those laws that keep guns from them and that would be tyranny. You know what we do to tyrants, right?

And of course we need to make a quarter billion firearms disappear by waving more magic legislation because 60 years of ever tightening regulation has done so much good and never mind that it would take more door kickings and home invasions without probable cause than Hitler ever envisioned to accomplish such a Herculean task. Let's go after box cutters and bottles of mouthwash and shampoo and let's ban mosques so no one can attack us. Let's do like we do with marijuana: just trot out the old rhetoric and blame the same old suspects and keep on doing what doesn't work. Pull the string on the America doll and hear that old scratchy and fatuous voice: Ban, ban, ban, ban, ban and let's not be namby-pamby socialists and discuss the causes of things.

No, we have no proof that the shooter was motivated by the vicious and endless call to violence, so why mention all those Ann Coulter references to killing congressmen and judges? ask the Republican first responders. Want to stop people from murdering doctors? Why take away the chemicals you can make explosives with and take away nails and glass and batteries and canvas backpacks and it will stop, right? Don't blame the "abortion is murder" profiteers. Don't blame biblical gay bashers, blame pick-up trucks. Truks drag gay teens to death, not bigots.

And after all, some liberal somewhere must once have said something we can twist into a false equivalence. I remember one minor league academic who claimed that "heads should roll at Newscorp" was just such a call for ritual murder by this liberal, commie, socialist, sociopath. I guess it's all been my fault all along.

No, all that mess in Africa would never have happened if we banned machetes in Rwanda and that's what they should have done. Never mind the incessant voices chanting "kill the Tutsi cockroaches." Take away the sharp objects and say goodbye to murderous intent. We'll all live in peace.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the Capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

said Sheriff Dupnik of Pima County. The damned liberal commie rat. But let's do nothing about that murderous rhetoric or the roaming madmen stirred to mayhem. It's the ACLU, it's the Liberal Media, it's Keith Olbermann -- it's the Satanic Obamanator who wants to give your hard earned money to the 'Negroes' and illegal wetback leprosy spreading drug addled rapists and other unworthies. No, the "conservatives" the loyal opposition didn't expect anyone to actually take the calls to violence seriously and the Constitution protects us when we lie and libel and paint targets on people - and we're strict constitutionalists, you know.

It's nobodies fault, really, now let's get a good night's sleep and get back to talking about the Saints-Seahawks game last night. A sad night for N'awlins.

29 comments:

  1. And before anyone chimes in blasting me for being an NRA dupe, I'm not. I despise the way they lie and misrepresent and stir up fear and hatred. They are as responsible as anyone for the paranoia and anti-government revolutionary hysteria as anyone and more than most.

    If the country wants to amend or repeal the 2nd amendment, there is a provision to do that the right way, not the wrong way by simply ignoring it or making up odd interpretations for it. If that's what the public wants, let it be.

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  2. Then lets go after the 2nd Amendment and lets charge Ann Coulter and all the other right wing nutcases, even Sarah Palin as accessories to the crime!

    Lets bring personal responsibility back into our society...lets go after this kid, his associate, and anyone who he communicated with just like we are doing with Wiki Links....

    Find a blog or a page on facebook or a twitter account that honors this type of behavior then report them and shut them down...

    Personally, I think guns should be treated like bowling shoes....you go, check them out and return them once you are done....

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  3. Yesterday, when my friend Ashleigh Burroughs (her blog name) reached the front of the line to shake Gabrielle Gifford's hand, the shooting started. Ashleigh was shot three times--in the chest, the abdomen, and the hip. Her hip was shattered and she awaits her second surgery.

    She would have blogged about Gifford today, but she's in the hospital scared. Like Gifford, she's always been careful in her political commentary, always concerned to show respect for opposing opinions. The very model of responsible American citizenship.

    I have been inspired by both Ashleigh and Gifford. Words have such terrifying power.

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  4. Captain, I noticed the anti-gun rhetoric has already begun, especially within our own ranks (notice the comment thread one post beneath this one). Speaking only for myself, I shall avoid the subject because I perceive it as the veritable snake of circular discourse devouring its tail … and the hissy fits and false equivalences going nowhere.

    I recall what you shared in this forum years ago: Year 2004, the season of the hurricanes, no electricity, no telephone service, no law enforcement, and gangs of thugs everywhere intimidating homeowners. I recall threats made against you and your wife. I shall NOT disrespect your reasons for owning a gun, and I ask all visitors and commenters to extend to our Captain the same consideration.

    I have no argument with guns kept for protection of home and hearth or used for healthy and legitimate sport. My argument is with folks whose display of guns are intended to make a political statement.

    There is no symmetry of free speech between an armed and an unarmed person. When folks bring guns to town hall meetings, or employ the symbolism of guns in their rhetoric, or suggest Second Amendment remedies as alternatives to civil discourse, their purpose is to intimidate and browbeat and threaten the safety of all who oppose them (and I think this sums up the undemocratic tactics of the tea party movement).

    So, before liberals start bashing each other with more circular arguments, I think these remarks offer a proper context for this discussion.

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  5. Nance, please my accept thanks for notifying us of Ashleigh's condition. Shocking that one from our own community was caught in this tragedy and has become one of the victims. If anyone reading this would like to leave a 'get well' message, go to the top post of Ashleigh's weblog, click here.

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  6. There are those on the right who want to deny that theose over there had anything to do with Loughner's craziness, but they are very wrong. What he did is what always happens when there is irresponsibly hateful and inciteful violence being preached by media figures like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sarah Palin, and by idiot motormouth politicians like Michele Bachmann and Sharron Angle. Thrown in a thoroughly biased media network like Fox "News" and you have everything you need to create another Jared Lee Loughner.

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  7. Yes Octy, a circular argument....Palin can print anything she wants, Fox News and Ann Coulter can say anything they want because of their right to freedom of speech.

    A kid can use and gain access to a hand gun with an extended clip and shoot up people because Capt Fogg lives in Florida amongst a bunch of criminals...

    If Capt Fogg can make a statement with a gun to a bunch of thugs who threaten his property then why can't others make a statement with their guns at political events where they believe their freedoms are being threatened?

    So we end up with week after week of newstories of people using guns against others or themselves....as it stands that makes all of them collateral damage doesn't it?

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  8. My daughter had to call us from Tuscon to tell us she was at the strip mall the day before and she and the baby were fine.

    Too bad this will end up as a football to score talking points for one side or the other. I also wonder how long this story will stay active. It's covered everywhere right now. There is a good post on this at Democracy Central as well.

    Alas, no solutions will come forth. Just more rhetoric.

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  9. Visit http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/petition-violent-rhetoric

    Or join the Coffee Party USA during their MovementForthePeople in Washington DC

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  10. As some are fond of saying, "Freedom is not free" so is freedom of speech not "free." You can say whatever you want but that does not mean that there are no consequences or responsibility for what comes out of your mouth or pen or keyboard.
    Inflammatory and inciteful commentary can set the tone for a group's behavior - the KKK is one such example where theology and rhetoric was spewed to incite others to act violently.
    We cannot excuse the language and images generated by others that include nooses, targets and words like "take them out." Whether this particular gunman is insane or has or has not seen images and statements is not really the issue.
    The general atmosphere and implied tolerance for violence is definitely at issue. If leaders in this society don't pull back and retract their violent vitirole and begin acting like responsible adults we will have more acts such as this.
    A riot starts with the first rock thrown, the first window broken, the first fire set.
    We can either be a civilized society or we better lock and load and get ready for the mobs.
    I am so saddened by the senseless deaths and injuries but I am glad Rep Giffords has survived and I hope she can get back to work soon. We need intelligent, concerned people like her in the political arena. And I hope Ashleigh has a speedy recovery and gets back to blogging soon.

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  11. TAO @ 3:51 PM, January 09, 2011 …

    I struggled to decide whether to delete your comment and avoid an argument, or whether to go ahead and post it and confront an issue that has been nettlesome for a long time: Courtesy and mutual respect for fellow bloggers and your penchant for ceaseless and unending confrontation.

    The purpose of my comment above (@ 2:27 PM, January 09, 2011) was to accord a courtesy to Captain Fogg, who has sometimes been unfairly assailed for his views on guns. In the above comment, I gave the context … Captain Fogg’s defense of family and home at a time when law enforcement was hindered due to a hurricane emergency. Too bad you missed the point.

    Furthermore, I tried to make this distinction for purposes of discussion: Guns used for a lawful and legitimate purpose versus guns used for intimidation. Given the contentious outcome of previous posts, I felt it was within my rights to draw this boundary. Too bad you missed the point.

    Frankly, I am stupefied by your all-too-frequent confrontational attitude. You chose to read my comment in stark all-or-nothing terms, as if to imply my ignorance of the news and the issues and my complicity with bagheads. You seem tone deaf to context and nuance, blind to the words on a page, and all too eager to belittle anyone who does not mirror your exact thoughts.

    In all too many discussion threads, you rage against people with sarcasm and innuendo, as if to browbeat and badger people into submission, thus leaving behind hard feelings. This is getting old and no longer acceptable.

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  12. The point is Octy that at some point we have to deal with the fact that guns do kill....and at an alarmingly and senseless rate. Thankfully, one very brave woman in the crowd wrestled away a second clip from this killer and it had 31 bullets in it.

    Look at Mexico....

    Look at our schools and the number of children who take loaded guns into school.

    My sister lives in a town of 6,000 people and in the last 30 days they have been on the national news for one kid holding his class mates hostage and then killing himself. In the other case a couple was visiting Texas where the wife left to visit an ATM and was robbed and kidnapped at gunpoint....thankfully she was found bound and gagged in the trunk of her car a couple of days later.

    The reality is that we throw out comments and make statements and never does anyone want to get beyond that point.

    So, the only good that will come out of this is that Palin will play low key for awhile and the dumbasses as Fox News will bray their comments about not condoning violence....

    It would be nice to believe that education would make a difference but due to the fact that 25% of our applicants for military duty cannot pass the basic test not real sure that will help.

    So, Capt Fogg has guns, which he uses for defensive purposes and no one is going to argue against that nor will they argue when my family members use their to hunt on an annual basis.

    But at some point society has to find a balance....just like on the issue of freedom of speech....with freedom comes a responsibility. When someone this irresponsbile gets a gun then we should stand up and ask questions....its just like everytime Palin or Coulter opens their mouth.

    We got watch lists to get on airplanes how about a watch list for people who buy guns....this kid was known to Homeland Security.

    If you want to make a distinction...then lets define the legitimate purpose of guns....which of course in Arizona it is legitimate to carry a concealed gun without a permit.

    Decent people died and suffered because we now have handguns that are machine guns with extended clips.

    In three months this will all blow over and nothing will change...we will move on to the next atrocity and act all shocked and appalled and preach our heartfelt sympathies and berate those we feel who contributed and by that time Palin will be back on top and Coulter will be running her foul mouth on television....

    Maybe we can re instate the Brady Bill but call it the Gifford Brady Bill this go round...

    By the way, its only been two threads that I went off on....that would be on Race and Autism.

    Two subjects I have lived with all my life, know personally, and happen to disagree....which is actually what you have issue with.

    So, lets go to Washington DC and do something besides punch keys on a keyboard....

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  13. TAO - The point is … that at some point we have to deal with the fact that … The reality is … the only good that will come out of this is that … it would be nice to believe … at some point society has to find a balance … to make a distinction … So, lets go to Washington DC and do something …

    Short form. TAO, you are not paying attention. An octopus is not an ignoramus, unwashed, unloved, unaware, uninformed, or callous or insensitive to the issues raised herein. I do not salute and stand at attention on demand. It scares people. I am passive avoidant of long-winded lectures. Nor do I engage in bestiality with bagpipes.

    It is doubtful I alone, or the entire Swash Zone, or the entire liberal blogosphere can reinstitute the Brady Law, repeal the Second Amendment, reverse the Supreme Court, change the country, or genetically modify the human species … overnight … presto! Just like that!

    Right now, I am hungry. I shall forage for barnacles and then go to sleep.

    GOODNIGHT!

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  14. I don't care to go into the whole "gun thing" again at length. Suffice it to say that firearms are ubiquitous in the USA -- saying we can or should get rid of them is sort of like saying we need to close Pandora's Box. It's too late for that since there are about ten gazillion of them already in circulation and the damned things will be easy for the wrong people to get (legally or otherwise) for as far as the eye can see. The basic right to have them (though not to "bear" them absolutely everywhere -- there, at least, better ground rules might help) is woven right into the Constitution, so that's that.

    The only thing that will ameliorate the situation is cultural change, and even provided that the proper agents recognize and do what they need to do, that takes time. The violence that occurs in America is without a doubt symptomatic of deep problems in our society: too many deranged, quarter-educated, hopeless, alienated, angry people are out there just waiting to "go off," and the media-fueled intensification of a culture of cynical mockery, hate and worship of force on the Right has made things even worse: it gives addled imaginations and intellects all the combustible materials they need to cause infinite pain and misery, degrading all of us in the process.

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  15. Dino, I couldn't agree more. Guns are out here all over America. I keep guns in my home, mostly for self protection should the need ever arise. My husband likes to target practice on occasion. Owning a gun doesn't make me a violent maniac. I don't carry it around or flash it at the neighbors. The problem isn't the gun but the deep seated sickness that has taken over our society. Forget about the weapons - remember the guy in the UK (where guns are banned) who entered a church with a catana and started cutting people up? If there are no guns there will be knives or ropes or sharpened sticks.
    The problem we must overcome is the departure from a civil society where we practiced restraint and followed a moral code to this anything goes free fall into the darkness of hate and ignorance we now find ourselves in.
    I also want to address the comment policy we all agreed on here at the Swash Zone which is clearly visible right above the comment box. While there is sometimes a little snark and sometimes a little heated discussion and sometimes disagreements, there is STILL a policy that discussion here are to be both civil and respectful of others.
    So please, everyone, take a moment to read your comments before you hit the post button - we can discuss, debate and disagree while being civil and respectful.

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  16. Rocky, a thought just occurred to me. Remember your post on Arizona’s anti-immigration law that included statistical trends in crime rates? Here is why I ask, starting with this quote by the good Sheriff:

    "The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

    And here is what Senator Jon Kyl said of Sheriff Dupnik's comments:

    First, I didn't really think that that had any part in a law enforcement briefing last night. It was speculation. I don't think we should rush to speculate.”

    And here is what right-wing radio host Jon Justice (of KQTH FM 104.1 in Arizona) said, calling for Sheriff Dupnik’s resignation:

    It was complete misuse of his power and he owes the media in town, TV and radio, an apology for his horrible comments in the middle of such a tragic day. He should step down immediately from his position as Pima County Sheriff."

    Hiccup! What I recall is your crime statistics research, most noteworthy your findings that overall crime had declined by 20% (?) whereas bias crimes had almost doubled in the same period. These statistics support the good sheriff’s claim and show that Kyl and company are trying to put lipstick on a squeal.

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  17. Nance, thanks for the update about your friend. I've gone to her site and left a message, hope others do as well.

    This is so senseless.

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  18. Octopus - I was very encouraged to hear the sheriff speak out against the kind of hate filled rhetoric that has engulfed this nation. I'm not surprised he is under attack for his honesty.I'm sure these are the same people that manufactured an immigration "crisis" in order to justify their new Draconian law.
    And the links to those two posts are here:
    http://bit.ly/hnqH0a
    http://bit.ly/hUoINy

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  19. I guess this is another Rashomon moment and for all of you biological and necessarily solipsistic entities, there is only one reality: the way you see it.

    Fortunately, since deciding to become entirely digital, I no longer give a shit and the opinions of biological waterbags don't toggle my flops as they formerly did.

    A kid can use and gain access to a hand gun with an extended clip and shoot up people because Capt Fogg lives in Florida amongst a bunch of criminals...

    "If Capt Fogg can make a statement with a gun to a bunch of thugs who threaten his property"

    Let me interrupt here to point out that you've already begun to create a scenario to support your opinion. I have never pointed a firearm at any human being. In 1976 I shot a squirrel whose shade still haunts me. I used a Kentucky flintlock long rifle in .44 caliber. Not a weapon commonly associated with sociopaths. In 2004, I was indeed accosted by a group of young men looking for trouble. They never saw my Colt - but only the 12 foot pruning saw I was using. I once comment that it was a good thing I had it, since it was a touch and go situation not helped by my wife screaming at them to get off the front lawn. That's it folks. That's the sort of thing that happens in disaster areas. Ask anyone who sat out Katrina in fear. And please don't tell me that if we made guns illegal there wouldn't be a problem. That's quite frankly idiotic and dishonest and furthermore, at 5' 7" and almost 66 years of age, I'm not likely to be anything but a speed bump to any large, aggressive man or group of them.

    There have been times in my longish life - a lot of them, where I've been a hundred or more miles from civilization. To have a little .22 rifle along as a survival item and to offer some modest self-protection isn't something that is going to fit nicely into someone's argument for the ultimate safety state. It's the same thing that prompts my multi-millionaire yacht club friends to keep a shotgun or the like on their yachts. Several have been accosted or awakened late at night in very remote places by people climbing aboard. I'd rather not be told that I'm too unstable to be allowed to defend myself and I won't buy an argument stating that because someone in arizona was not successful in gunning down a madman in the 5 or 6 seconds available, self defense is never possible. None the less, 99% of my interest in firearms is in antiques - or of course it was until I went digital and gave up the possibility of giving a shit about anything.

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  20. "then why can't others make a statement with their guns at political events where they believe their freedoms are being threatened?"

    You do recognize the logical disconnect in this question. It has to be apparent even to a biological brain and the question has been answered over and over again: because there are limits to liberty and the law is there to set those limits. I believe that one should not legally be able to carry firearms in places, as Florida law says, that are a potential nuisance. Bars, Ballgames, schools, police stations, courtrooms, government offices or any place where the owner doesn't want you to. I believe political rallies should be included and I'm not sure they aren't in Arizona.

    As I said, it's Rashomon redux. Everyone has his own idea of what just happened, his own set of facts and fallacies and certainly his own axe to grind. Just as the Kent State Massacre eventually became an attack on the military by hippy insurgents, this will become something else. It's already on the way.

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  21. Now as to my own silicon self, I can be backed up and so to continue the movement of charges across a semiconductor junction is less important that maintaining a pulse is to you bio's. So the hoary old dichotomy between security and freedom means nothing. It does to you, but what does not seem apparent to many is that there is no absolute freedom and no absolute security. We can't have a completely libertarian, tea-party state where no one has anything to say about an individual's property and rights or a fuzzy cocoon state where the main objective is safety at all costs and pragmatism is in dire peril.

    Speaking of dire peril, let's weigh the odds of being shot by a madman. Without getting into the kind of data dump that is traditional in comment sections, you're sure as hell in more danger on the road and from some 20 year old in a Ford Expedition with a cellphone and a frappachino than you are from some person legally owning a gun. Some orders of magnitude, I would venture to say. In fact those with carry permits in Florida have committed so few gun crimes as to be statistically meaningless, so let's please hear no more about how allowing concealed carry promotes crime. The proof is in the proof, not in the fears of the public. Ban all handguns? It's been done without positive effect. England is now awash in knife crime to the point of panic in some quarters despite bans and 3 million cameras in London alone able to identify faces and read license numbers.

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  22. The thing that ruffles my RAM is the flood of emotional diatribe and the inalienable affection humans have for things that feel good to say but aren't true; that feel good to support but don't work. Banning firearms will do what banning alcohol did, what banning cannabis did. Crime will increase, criminals will be encouraged. You don't have to take my word for it, there are enough examples if one looks through the emotional haze.

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  23. Capt. Fogg & all,

    Leave it to a simple lizard to answer a simple question. Seems to me that the easiest way to respond to questions like, "Why can't I bring my Magnum .357 Dirty Harry Special to the old folks home and brandish it at people just for the hell of it?" is that while the Constitution decks out a certain right to "keep and bear arms," it doesn't say that such possession or bearing is EXPRESSION. It ain't a work of art or "free speech," Mabel, it's a firearm. Guns are dangerous, and the people have a right to set some commonsensical rules about where guns are and aren't appropriate. They aren't appropriate at political rallies or meetings, hospitals, schools, or a number of other locations most of us could agree on. And the penalty for abusing one's rights and unjustly injuring another person should be prohibitively steep. We don't have to accept jackasses treating the rest of us as acceptable collateral damage whenever they get into a heated argument over a restaurant bill or take umbrage at someone just for looking at them funny.

    I'm pretty sure the Constitution looks kindly on our general right to move about as we please so long as we're not trespassing on someone else's property, but that doesn't mean we can taxi a small plane along the interstate highway just to "express" ourselves. As the line from The Big Lebowski goes, "This ain't 'Nam -- there are rules!"

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  24. Ah personal anecdotes. Why reconsider opinions in the light of evidence when you can just propose massive worldwide conspiracies and the unreliability of scientific method? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, sure, and everyone can be wrong. There is a decided lack of discrimination between truth and opinion here. Humans should avoid binary logic anyway. they don't have the brains for it. Any machine can tell you that you can ban magazines ( a clip is something else)of more than ten rounds without banning firearms. But of course the machine will remember that we once did that with absolutely no discernible effect since criminals, by definition, don't obey laws and laws that cannot be enforced without breaking higher laws are, by definition, unenforceable.

    Just as a point of interest, Vermont also does not require a concealed carry permit for residents. This crime didn't happen in Vermont, which suggests at least one dominant factor in such hate crimes other than the uninfringed upon right to carry firearms.

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  25. Capt. Fogg,

    To whom do you address your comments? What you just wrote follows what I wrote and some will take it as a response, yet that hardly seems to be the case since I included no personal anecdotes and we are in general agreement about the issue in question.

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  26. Bloggingdino,
    Methinks the Captain's remarks are directed at the Zen Entity. This is why I tried to set boundaries in my comment @ 2:27 PM, January 09, 2011 (above), my clumsy attempt to forestall a rush of adrenaline.

    Perhaps the Private Beach should be re-christened, The 12 Steps of Bloggers Anonymous, starting with the first step:

    I realize I am powerless over adrenaline and that my life has become unmanageable.

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  27. Dino,

    I believe your post may have gone up while I was responding to a couple of previous ones. Either that or I screwed up. I agree with what you say completely.

    "Guns are dangerous, and the people have a right to set some commonsensical rules about where guns are and aren't appropriate. They aren't appropriate at political rallies or meetings, hospitals, schools, or a number of other locations most of us could agree on. And the penalty for abusing one's rights and unjustly injuring another person should be prohibitively steep."

    Absolutely. There's great deal of space between all or nothing and if that's apparent to a binary mechanism, it should be more apparent to the analog types.

    Guns are indeed dangerous and so are airplanes and cars and jet skis, but they all have their place.

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  28. I should also respond to the "look at Mexico"

    I should have used that as an example of a country that bans guns and drugs and is in the hands of criminals.

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  29. It's time for a literal (originalist?) interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to the constitution. Own a gun and you're in the militia. Weapons registered and owners licensed. Monthly meetings. Small unit tactics. Weapons handling. Digging and using field latrines during extended training on the Canadian & Mexican borders.

    It will do us good to take the responsibilities accompanying the 2nd Amendment a little more seriously.

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