Short, sweet, and to the point!
Update: Our redoubtable raccoon, who is still recovering from a recent injury, has remembered us in our darkest hour. Here is her comment which sums up the Swash Zone consensus:
As much as I abhor uncivil discourse, there has come a time now when our country and our lives are in the greatest of danger and we need to get loud and angry and if the "F" bomb gets us attention then I say drop it.Nonetheless, my original title was a bit over the top even for a stalwart dinosaur. In deference to the Saurischian, I have removed the F-Bomb and retitled this post ... with my humble cephalopod apologies.
I'm tired of their glassy eyed, manical rantings and their disrespect for the political process and the judicial process and the president. I'm tired of hearing about some god that hates fags, wants Jews and blacks and liberals to die, and wants us to toss our constitution for good ole Kristian Law that will set us back 100 years. I would take the high road if it still existed but it does not - they have torn it down and ground it under their heels, now we fight fire with fire or we will lose everything we hold dear (Rockync, 10:02 AM - September 05, 2011).
Rethuglicans are a motherf*cker..!
ReplyDeleteFar be it from me to stand with what has become the Republican Party, but I have to say that I am distressed by the lack of civility coming from the left side of the aisle lately.
ReplyDeleteAre we heading down the same road, indeed are we already there as the partisans on the right?
I have never decried partisanship from either side, but rather, the way that partisanship has been portrayed.
Certainly the current GOP has been ruthless in not only trying to discredit the policies of President Obama and his Admin, but also in trying to discredit him as an American personally.
Little do they know this will also have the elect of weakening the office of all future presidents too.
However, this does not give the left an excuse to be just as coarse or just as childish.
Be critical of policies, be fearless, be truthful, and do it in a way that brings respect.
Is that not what civil discourse from people of all persuasions is about?
How did we get to this low point in history!!??
ReplyDeleteWell and gently stated, Dave.
ReplyDeleteDave: “Certainly the current GOP has been ruthless …”
ReplyDeleteRobert: “How did we get to this low point in history!!??”
Frankly, I expected a negative response to this post, and undoubtedly there will be more criticism to come … even, I suspect, from fellow creatures of the Swash Zone. Why did I post this, you ask?
Yes, the GOP has been ruthless; and no, I never wanted to stoop this low.
However, the American public is paying a terrible price with no end in sight. Broken marriages, broken families, and blighted neighborhoods due to lost jobs, lost homes, and depravation unworthy of this country. Real human suffering, yet the Republicans think balancing the Federal budget is more important than human health, safety and welfare. Worst of all, Republicans are holding the nation hostage to gain every possible partisan advantage - rather than addressing the full scope of this human catastrophe. I call this a callous disregard bordering on evil!
Republicans seek the elimination of these programs: The Departments of Education and Health and Human Services, the EPA, FEMA, Medicare, Social Security, all public defined-benefit pension and retirement accounts, union rights, food safety inspections, and now ... Hurricane Hunter flights.
HOW CAN ANYONE REMAIN CIVIL ANY LONGER? I can’t and I won’t! Mutual respect has won us nothing. If pushback is what it takes, then pushback is what they’ll get.
Octo, all you say about the GOP is true. But the problem is lies in the acquiescence and ignorance of the American people.
ReplyDeleteInvective won't work. Unless, that is, you have a direct rapport with the dispossessed victims of the system, and a strong forum that can directly confronts the perpetrators of the problems.
I understand the frustration. But as I keep saying, the real conflict is not between the right and left (which has been co-opted and continually engineered by the top), it's between the top and the bottom.
The top loves this dualistic party infighting. It keeps all of us busy on the wrong game. Meanwhile the system works evermore in their favour—driving profits and control to the top in a now globalized system.
Railing at the dupes does nothing.
Correction: actually, railing at the dupes makes it worse.
ReplyDeleteAnd Octo, as a dear friend once told me: "You need to approach your [subject] with a more critical eye and ask yourself, “Is this worthy?” Meaning, you need to ask your readers whether or not they think it is a good idea. Clearly, you are promoting an idea, not stimulating a discussion or asking for feedback. If the latter was your intent, you failed to position it properly. Don’t be shocked or surprised when the reader response turns sour."
ReplyDeleteEdge,
ReplyDeleteYes, I recall that quotation. Do you recall the response I got? A patronizing, pretentious and sanctimonious reply with a pinch of predatory thrown in for good measure. The good folks here are not naïve, uninformed, unread, or unwashed as you think we are; nor do we balance balls on the tips of our noses on command. Trust me: You do not want to piss off an octopus!
You bastard! You made me laugh, right out loud!
ReplyDeleteI'm still laughing!
ReplyDeleteI posted a similar video with this song and frankly I friggin love the melody more than the words, it just makes me happy! I do think the current Republican party deserves this song though...:-)
ReplyDeleteSo much hate going on in politics we need to smile once in awhile, right? This song makes me smile!
I've probably said this before but I think it's appropriate and is worth repeating.
ReplyDeleteI've worked on dozens of campaigns and the honest truth is not once did we ever look back and say that we should have been more positive.
The ones we lost we were positive. The ones we won we beat holy hell out of the poor sap running against us. I lost the last one I ran and that did me in mentally. it was lost because we didn't beat the opponent up. he beat us up and we stayed positive. Lost by 400 votes.
Don't let up Octo. Nice guys do indeed finish last. You can't do anything is you lose. And if telling yourself that at least you can look in the mirror and live with yourself makes you feel better, you should never get involved in politics.
It's a brutal game and the other side will cut your nuts off if given a chance.
Joe winning the (left-right) fight at all costs is a race to the bottom, and the top always wins. The end result is the massive frustration seen on both sides of the campaign and blogs like this. It's time for a new paradigm that moves away from left v. right toward bottom v. top.
ReplyDeleteThe top loves us engaged in the "brutal game [in which] the other side will cut your nuts off if given a chance." We do all the dirty work of transferring power from the bottom to the top and keep ourselves divided and conquered—while the profits and control continue to rise to the top while the country and the great majority of citizens go deeper into debt.
I'm a bit confused about who's on top and why outspoken opposition to the plunge toward corporate feudalism and imperialism is furthered by my/our bitching about it in our 'outside' voices.
ReplyDeleteThere certainly is no strong public voice shouting about what's happening and the media-watching public really has little idea -- so why should I shut up? It may be hard to shout them down - almost impossible, perhaps, but what of the silence? There's a silence that precedes takeovers and a deeper one afterward that comes of fear.
But I agree that this obsession with left/right is a semantic game and neither term really means anything consistent. Why is being against an unnecessary war "lefty" for one small example? It's just another sleazy shibboleth in what really is a class war by proxy.
But what do we do even if it's hard to be heard and hard to get anyone to listen without dismissing what the Rand cult tells them to dismiss? Silence isn't going to get anywhere and voting is less effective as time goes by and money talks and money votes and money buys the truth.
But again, who's on 'top?' Warren Buffet? Me? and does affluence really mean greed and arrogance and criminal intent and hate of democracy? Would I be more righteous if I were poor and debt ridden? The Tea Party idiots come from all income levels. It's not a movement based on real issues or real complaints. It's a movement I prefer to address on its own lack of merit rather than making it about social classes.
For my part, I think the moral, decent, modest high road goes nowhere, as much as it pains me to say that. If someone is going to rob me, I can't afford to worry about getting my clothes wrinkled and muddy. If we are fighting for our lives and freedom; if it's us against the Devil, I'm not going to politely ask the honorable Mr. Satan to be reasonable and accommodating, I'm going to ridicule and expose, persecute and prosecute by any legal means at my disposal. I'm not going to let people get away with seditious lies and that of course would be just what the damn Republicans would wish for -- for us to be all cozy and decorous and polite while they invade our personal liberty and reduce our civilization to an oppressive and brutal state with workhouses, debtor's prisons, disease and starvation.
So when Mad Marco Rubio goes on the air to tell us that Social Security and Medicare have ruined the American family, I damn well am not going to say "oh well" and politely explain why he's not only wrong but contradicting his earlier statements, I'm going to call him every name that applies because he's not going to listen and the flies that swarm around his stinking mouth hole aren't going to listen and when he speaks, I'm going to call him a liar and when I finally have to leave this suicidal land, the last thing I want to feel is that I could have said something, but didn't.
Capt., there is nothing wrong with dissent.
ReplyDeleteBut I might ask, who moved the needle more in the civil rights struggle, Malcolm or Martin? What might that tell us?
Viewpoints on issues are notoriously subjective. When the GOP and their people interpret events one way, and call our President a liar, or like today, idiotic, how can we call them coarse and disrespectful if we are matching their behavior?
Just askin...
Capt., apparently you and Warren Buffett aren't the problem. But the financial and international policy gang advising the Administration—including Brzezinski, Kissinger, Geithner, Paulson, Bernanke and a whole cadre of Goldman types—certainly point to the top, which tends to remain pretty well hidden.
ReplyDeleteWhen a "sovereign" nation doesn't have it's own publicly-owned central bank and its currency is fiat currency printed by a privately-owned banking cartel, one might just get the idea that something is amiss, and that private interests are actually at the helm—and the entire country, both private and public sector, is indebted to these bankers and foreign debt holders to the tune of $25 trillion+ leaving the US literally bankrupt.
Yet the US is still pursuing an imperialistic trajectory internationally, investing and operating the largest—by far—military force in the world, but most calculations spending between 42% and 47% of the world's total military spending, which it will continue to do by incurring even more debt.
This is Eisenhower's worst "standing army" nightmare come true. I would add Raytheon, Lockhead-Martin, Boeing, Dow, Monsanto, Haliburton and a whole shadowy list of corporate arms and services suppliers, and in fact a large percentage of the American production economy depends on this constant state of global war—fostered and exacerbated by American foreign policies.
Meanwhile, the money to pay for it all comes out of the pockets of the middle and lower income earners, while those at the top (coincidentally, those who do the most lobbying and provide the greatest amount of campaign contributions) enjoy the lowest tax rates since the 1920s, and are earning profits unparalleled in history.
So sure. You are right in your righteous indignation aimed at those idiots such as Rubio, who want to put the blame on the social safety net, or those wackos who want to erode that safety net and personal freedoms even further. But that sense of righteousness should also be directed—not just at the former and current crop of neo-Conservatives—but also at the current crop of neo-Liberals running the joint today. Because from where I'm sitting, I don't see very much functional difference between the two parties whatsoever.
They're both being bought and paid for by somebody. And that 'somebody' sure as shit doesn't seem to be any of the people on this blog.
So as much as we all might fight the good fight, and fuck those fuckers, nothing is going to change because the actual control agents are outside—and above—the two political poles. As are the Ivy League schools who educate these agents.
Another example of why (O)CT(O)PUS's post is correct.
ReplyDeleteAnd another.
ReplyDeleteOur resident cephalopod understands this.
Well, all I can say is "go for it" and see how it all works out.
ReplyDelete"one might just get the idea that something is amiss, and that private interests are actually at the helm"
ReplyDeleteOne might. Reading the news this morning it seems Ohio has privatized prisons so some company can make a buck every time someone does time and in proportion to the length of the sentence. That's probably even worse than the old style feudalism. We have a stronger lobby against decriminalizing anything now, because it pays to imprison the most people we can.
Now cleaning up the air and water is a bad thing because the coal and oil barons say so and the President isn't in a position to disagree -- lots of examples, lots of trends toward a Dickensian level of hopeless squalor, but the public isn't smart enough to see what's crawling up their pants leg to grab them by the whatever.
Maybe that's why I get polemical. Perhaps I delude myself that it's not entirely too late; that we're still able to vote freely despite the propaganda and the corporate owned hysteria, but you know, I can't help it even though I often feel it's all lost.
I just want to avoid making pariahs out of people with money. We're not heading toward a private police state where whatever you do, you're shopping at the company store because of Bill Gates, we're headed that way because we're too busy with our own windmills to be strong enough to stop this. Perhaps we could use a bit more anger, but a directed anger. Remember, we outnumber them.
But I'm constitutionally opposed to placing blame on almost any "class" since I remember what happened in Germany and Rwanda, as two small examples -- and of course it's fundamental to Communism to blame a class for a predicament that is 100% our fault.
So I persist in the hope that if people who are opposed to this racketeering, this organized takeover of our country get angry enough - angrier than the Tea-Zombies, but better able to see what the national interest really is - there is hope. Not much faith on my part, but a little hope.
But I have to say, while I'm giving the finger to the racketeers and the internal imperialists, I have to do the same to what I might call "our" side. Democrats don't seem to be any better than the fundies and Tea-sluts at abandoning ideas that don't work. We'll still persist in saying that if we do A then B will happen when we do A and B never does. We're still of the same God forsaken species. In that respect; in terms of introspective honesty and dedication to objectivity, perhaps there is a high road that isn't a dead end.
ReplyDeleteSalute, Capt.
ReplyDeleteDave:
ReplyDelete"Viewpoints on issues are notoriously subjective. When the GOP and their people interpret events one way, and call our President a liar, or like today, idiotic, how can we call them coarse and disrespectful if we are matching their behavior?"
I don't think we could ever come close to matching their behavior and in that respect, I don't think we are able to. What I see is a schoolyard bully accusing his victims with an invisible smile on his face. Viewpoints may be subjective, but there was nothing subjective about the Swift Boat sleaze or the Birther bullshit or the "Death panel" garbage. Sometimes a lie is just a lie and sorry, I do not respect malicious liars who lie for power and profit any more than I respect people who fly planes into buildings.
In short, I find this an invalid comparison. Earned disrespect is much different than tactical disrespect -- the same difference between jailing an innocent man and jailing a guilty man.
Dave,
ReplyDeleteBefore I defend my feral manners, I just want to say: I admire, respect and welcome your comments. In a more perfect world where there are folks who respect appeals to human decency, there is a place for turning a cheek. These days, turning a cheek is tantamount to raising a white flag. You ask:
“… who moved the needle more in the civil rights struggle, Malcolm or Martin?”
In their time, there were people of good will willing to take to the streets to change the direction of a nation. Where are they today? Where are the voices of conscience? Who advocates for the poor?
These days, shameless bullies throw sand on every moral argument. Meanwhile, our mainstream media dutifully reports all verbal abuse - not in pursuit of hidden truth buried beneath the talking heads bullshit - but with the alacrity of game show hype. Perhaps I should reply with another question (one that has vexed historians since WWII):
“How would Gandhi have faired against Hitler or Stalin?”
Do I exaggerate? Here is one of Captain Fogg’s most quotable lines (rough paraphrase):
“The United States has turned itself into a late-stage Weimar Republic.”
There have always been proto-fascist tendencies in American culture. Look no further than Father Coughlin and Joseph McCarthy – predecessors of Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Dick Armey, and other Tea Party hooligans. Rather than condemn the bigotry and nihilism of these extremists, rank-and-file Republicans now enlist them for partisan advantage.
Roughly 16 million wage-earners lost jobs in the Great Recession due to no fault of their own – hard-working, former tax-paying citizens whom Republican Senator Orrin Hatch has characterized: Drug Test the Unemployed! How to turn the tide of public opinion against innocent victims of Ponzi scheme economics? Defame them. Cast blanket suspicions upon them irrespective of their right to a presumption of innocence. This is victim blame. Where is the public outrage?
Consider Shaw’s recent post about the right-winger who advocates disenfranchising the poor by taking away their voting rights. Where is the public outrage?
And where is the outrage when $2 trillion in stock market equity vanished within days after Republicans held an entire nation hostage over debt negotiations … to further disrupt a battered economy in order to win back the White House in 2012. Where is the public outrage?
For decades, right wing Republicans have pushed every standard of civil discourse and human decency further into the wilderness – casting decent citizens in derisive terms with tracts titled: Liberalism is a Mental Disorder and Treason: Liberal Treachery [blah, blah, blahh].
These days, Republicans no longer apologize for gaffes or offensive and outrageous remarks. They double-down and re-double the rhetoric. No morally persuasive argument has ever stopped a demagogue or aspiring tyrant: Eliminationist rhetoric is the signature trait of fascism.
Please pardon my bad language. As one who’s fore bearers perished in the Holocaust, lets just say I have a barbecue phobia.
My arm is still giving me pain and problems so my posting remains limited but I thought I would throw in my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
ReplyDeleteI, like Dave and Edge prefer to address our financial and social ills in a reasoned, civil manner. But here is the problem - our collective quiet approach has been seen as some sort of weakness and the backward mobs of uneducated, hateful,uncivil neanderthals have taken advantage by screaming and stomping around together so much so that you would think they were the majority of Americans. Not so but they are so emboldened they now believe that they can foster any type of unconstitutional malfeasance and get away with it.
As much as I abhor uncivil discourse, there has come a time now when our country and our lives are in the greatest of danger and we need to get loud and angry and if the "F" bomb gets us attention then I say drop it.
I'm tired of their glassy eyed, manical rantings and their disrespect for the political process and the judicial process and the president. I'm tired of hearing about some god that hates fags, wants Jews and blacks and liberals to die and wants us to toss our constitution for good ole Kristian Law that will set us back 100 years.
I would take the high road if it still existed but it does not - they have torn it down and ground it under their heels, now we fight fire with fire or we will lose everything we hold dear.
Rockync
(Blogger won't let me comment under my account-what is up with that?)
Obama has been a gentleman to the point of excusing the Republicans for opposing him. How has being Mr. Nice Guy worked out for him?
ReplyDelete". How has being Mr. Nice Guy worked out for him?"
ReplyDeleteWell, the crude answer is "Look up the word blumpkin"
Personally, I think I see what his problem is. As I recently pointed out, google obama+thug and check out how many hits you get.
I suspect that he doesn't want the legacy of the first black president to be "he was an overbearing egomaniac who abused his authority."
You know what, though? At this point, if he got a little heavy-handed, I think that history would forgive him.