Bangladesh. If you wear clothes, you probably own some that were
made there and you probably paid a whole hell of a lot less for them
than had they been made in the US and odds are you have more than one
change of clothes too. You probably don't spend much time feeling bad
that the people who made them can't afford them and are far more likely
to die of poverty and disease than collect a pension or social security
or Medicare. Whose fault is that anyway?
Odds are as
well that you won't even know about and aren't likely to be in a state
of shock and obsessive mourning -- won't be seeking healing and closure
or holding moments of silent prayer -- if you're an American, that is.
Americans have time for that sort of thing: time to run marathons, time
to feel sorry for themselves if a few are killed by something other than
an industrial accident, time to feel oppressed by taxes.
We'll
pretty much ignore the building collapse that killed at least 244 in
Bangladesh and we'll pretty much ignore the accident in Texas too,
because to question the wisdom or more importantly the expense to
industry of safety standards or building codes or zoning, just isn't the
sort of thing we devoted Capitalists like to do. We're not Muslims,
after all.
I'm occasionally conflicted. While I feel the same emotions for the unfortunate circumstances people experience throughout the world as I do for Americans experiencing those circumstances I question why we should feel responsibilty for helping those folks when we have so many here in need.
ReplyDeleteJust saying...
RN,
ReplyDeleteSince the factory made clothing for American consumers under unsafe conditions, there is a human rights dimension to this story that must be told: After Bangladesh Building Collapse, Police Club Workers Protesting Against Owner.
Yes, armed thugs breaking heads over worker protest. Reminds me of 1930's America and reminds me of the Tea Party vision. Weak government, no protection of the rights of labor if indeed there are any. No regulation of worker safety, product safety, public safety -- no building codes, just graft and corruption in a country where only money votes.
DeleteSo why aren't countries like this wildly successful and productive? Why is there no evidence that unbridled, unfettered, unhindered, uncontrolled, untaxed and dog-eat-dog capitalism brings anything but abuse, poverty for most, lack of choices and a small number of 'galts' living abroad, money in Liechtenstein, complaining that they're being persecuted?
I had a conversation with a gentleman last evening, who had just gotten back from Bangladesh. His business is industrial process controls and he was there to do a job involving a large bridge crane installation.
ReplyDeleteHe said that the impression he got was that the Bangladeshis, by and large, want less. If they have a little fruit and some rice and someplace to sleep, it is enough. While I don't doubt his sincerity, I doubt very much that he's correct. My impression of people is that when they have nothing and little expectation of getting much, then bare necessities are a goal. As we become more "successful" we become more acquisitive. At some point in the curve our desire for "enough" turns into greed--and that's where the ugly starts. Most of the workers who died in that factory were at the lower end of the societal ladder. There are literally millions in Bangladesh who would be happy to have had the chance to work in that deathtrap and beat the odds.
"While I feel the same emotions for the unfortunate circumstances people experience throughout the world as I do for Americans experiencing those circumstances I question why we should feel responsibilty for helping those folks when we have so many here in need."
The second part of your comment falsifies the first part. If you felt the same emotions, you would feel the same responsibility. I don't doubt your sincerity, but your logic is faulty.
Really, how so? If one accepts your views they must then accept responsibilty for the world. To do so is IMO is not only a physical impossibility it results assured failure.
DeleteAdvocacy for universal human rights is a noble and worthy cause. Responsibilty for achieving this rests with each country and its unique culture.
DC:
Delete"when they have nothing and little expectation of getting much, then bare necessities are a goal. As we become more "successful" we become more acquisitive. At some point in the curve our desire for "enough" turns into greed--and that's where the ugly starts"
I think the ugly is always there, but then I'm a misanthrope. But the sliding scale of expectations is a truism. So much of our daily exposure to the voice of commerce is the attempt to raise our expectations, our sense of what's right and normal and what we all deserve. I'm not immune. Deep inside I think there's something wrong that that guy a few slips down has a 62 foot Sunseeker and I only have a paltry 33 foot SeaRay.
Accepting one's place in life as a serf, a slave, a member of the Untouchable caste is what religion has taught - virtually all of them. Rising to riches and more riches is what the religion of Capitalism preaches, even when it withholds it from so many.
If Third World Capitalism offered hope that things will improve for those starving and ignorant masses, I might think the present is a necessary and temporary evil, but it may be that the world needs people to oppress, the poor to exploit and keep down -- and I'm afraid that's how it is.
I think there is a lesson here, that every time you go to a Wal-Mart or any place with similar practices, you are living off of the suffering and deprivation of others. At the same time you are helping them suck the life out of our own country. Unfortunately, the country is filled with people who are content to have people far away live in near starvation, so they can save five dollars on a pair of sneakers. Maybe that's why so many of them don't seem to think it's strange when the hyper rich do the same thing to them.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't shop Wal Mart Green Eagle. Prefer to shop the small local stores wherever possible.
DeleteRational, I am proud to say that I have never been in a Wal-Mart in my life, and I hope to go to my grave with that record intact.
DeleteMe too, but I can afford to pay a bit more. With so many Americans hanging on to being middle class by their fingernails and so many struggling just to pay the bills, Wal-Mart is the only choice -- and a choice that perpetuates the problem.
ReplyDeleteI have no ill will toward the poor of the world, I just wish their only choices weren't slavery or starvation because the economic rulers of the world want it that way.
What I was trying to say here was that our national reaction to senseless and unnecessary death depends on something other than the number killed. I'm thinking that our degree of sobbing and moaning and need for healing has much to do with what we're told. Our emotions are orchestrated by people who would rather have us all worked up about a handful or people in Boston than a much bigger handful in Texas and a whole lot more in Bangladesh.
ReplyDeleteThere's much more chance any of us will be killed by criminal negligence, incompetence and such than by bomb throwing anarchists or jihadists, yet the people who caused that fertilizer plant to blow up are criminals just as much and so are the people who preach for an economic system that enables businesses to flaunt the law in the name of profit.
But we're not asking for the rights of executives to be abridged are we? No piles of teddy bears on Texas, no silent runners in the streets.
Is it really much different to kill people because you hate them or their country than to kill them out of greed for money and contempt for the regulations of their country?
"Really, how so? If one accepts your views they must then accept responsibilty for the world. To do so is IMO is not only a physical impossibility it results assured failure."
ReplyDeleteThanks. I knew that you'd eventually admit that you don't give a fuck about anybody but yourself. Or do you feel "responsible" for all of the suffering in THIS country? Just your state? Your block? Either you're only "responsible" for doing something to help the people you REALLY give a fuck about (a small circle, apparently, for you) OR you're responsible for doing something whenever you see injustice or abuse. Gots to be one or the other.
Me, I don't feel like I have to do anything but live my life in the best way that I know how and not fuck other people for personal gain. On the surface that's pretty selfish. If everyone lived that way, life would be "heaven on earth"--which would be nice, since it doesn't exist in, umm, heaven.
I assure you of one thing and one thing only democommie.. I could not give a fuck less about you or your self righteous. bullshit.
DeleteIf we can accept that we are all human beings then there is no "us" and "them". Yes, we live a world away from each other, don't speak the same language and certainly don't live under the same circumstances. But even at that, we still have a connection that requires us to see, feel, hear and give voice to the injustices wherever they happen. From the mutilated girls of Islamic driven countries to the imprisoned dissidents in Communist China to the starving and endangered workers in plaves like Bangladesh. From the abused dogs in America to the poached rhinos of Africa and all the other animals senselessly hunted to near extinction or abused and tortured for our amusement.
ReplyDeleteWe can't live in a bubble or in isolation or our lives will truly be half-lived and that would be a real tragedy.
Agreed. But. Until respect for all the divergent philosophies is accepted and a willingness to SINCERELY consider opposing views becomes the norm this is chasing rainbows.
DeleteBy that measuring stick we would not have American Civil Rights or the end to aparthied in South Africa. There will be no respect for divergent philossphies or sincere consideration of opposing views or acceptance of others as they are until each of us determines that this is what we will do - it can't become the "norm" until enough people make it the norm but waiting around for tolerant attitudes and respect to take hold is chasing rainbows. Standing up and giving voice to these ideas gives others the strength and courage to stand up and thus a movement is born. Waiting on the sidelines for something to happen is just spectator sport.
DeleteAgree once again rockync. It is by the active rational mind engaged in reasoned logical analysis that civilized society becomes enlightened. Emotions, certainly when they influence thought, are the antithesis of rational thought.
Delete" It is by the active rational mind engaged in reasoned logical analysis that civilized society becomes enlightened."
ReplyDeleteBullshit.
The union movement in the U.S. and abroad.
The civil rights movement (a far from "over" war, btw) in the U.S.
Women's rights, worldwide.
Active rational minds do not stand in the face of police with ravening dogs, water cannons, battle tanks and the like--unless they stand with the thousands of people whose only thought is to obtain a more just measure.
Are you rationally engaging the folks who built that shithole factory in Dhaka? of the stupid fucks who set two anti-personnel ied's in Boston a few weeks back? The only thing you ever "englightened" me about is your libertarian notion that only those who are in the position do do so should benefit from the social weal. It's a bullshit "analysis" that can be summed up with one word, "selfishness".
Do you feel better now democommie? I certainly hope so because you haven't a clue just what the fuck you are babbling about, certainly not with respect to me or my understanding of Libertarianism. But that's okay by me because I realize the blind faith you put in your brand of progressivism as well as your total disdain for anyone (or all) who doesn't think EXACTLY as you do.
DeleteHave a great evening now ya hear?
The United Color of Benetton is blood red.
ReplyDeleteCorporations don't have hearts or consciences. They have stockholders and boards of directors accountable for profit and loss. When you hear commercials declaring "at ****, inc, we believe. . ." Don't believe it because the only thing a corporation believes in is making money and the bigger it is, the more that's true.
ReplyDeleteIf nothing requires a company to protect employees or sub-contractors, they will not. If nothing requires them to manufacture at higher cost in the US, they will not and if they do anything like that, that affects profits adversely, they will go out of business or face the wrath of the stockholders. We can't be sure that the company wasn't deceived as to conditions or the building inspectors weren't bribed or incompetent. It's pretty hard to assign blame, But I suspect much of it lives in Bangladesh.
Public contempt can make a difference, but when virtually everything we buy is imported, it's tough. When we're forced to buy imported stuff, and we often are, it's very tough. Having been trained for a long time to prefer imported, it may be hopeless.
I'm happy not to buy their shirts, but when your car is made in Mexico, when your Chevy is made in Kentucky with lots of parts from Germany, Australia and elsewhere, how can we know what working conditions are in the Japanese company that subcontracts it's spark plugs to Malaysia? I do try to buy domestic, but even domestic often isn't domestic and that's everything from clothes to food - apples to Zucchini.
Capitalism starts with the same letter as Conscience, but that's where the similarity stops.
"Do you feel better now democommie? I certainly hope so because you haven't a clue just what the fuck you are babbling about, certainly not with respect to me or my understanding of Libertarianism."
ReplyDeleteEnlighten me, asshole.
You're a Paulite or nearest thing to it. A Randroid fuckhead who wants to be sure that you get yours and fuck the rest of the planet. I've been reading your bullshit for awhile now, pal, and that's all it is, bullshit. You have nothing else to work with.
Any comment that fails to rise above ranting, taunting, profanity, and name-calling. . .
ReplyDeleteRN is closer to President Ford who said we can't go all over the world freeing everybody Democommie. I consider neither Ford or RN "fuckheads."
ReplyDeleteThe question is now if we must free them then how do we do it without an invasion and committment of generations, lives and treasure? Any suggestions Democommie?