Of course it was yet another seditious Republican hate group calling itself Citizens United trying once again to vilify the president by conducting a "brief poll" which of course consisted of a minute's hysterical rant by David Bossie ( who brags about having investigated the Clinton Administration and has written vituperative and not too factual books on Al Gore and John Kerry) about how Obama is destroying America and heaps praise on Limbaugh and Fox News. A fulsomely perky female voice returned and asked me which is more damaging for America:
- Obama's massive tax and spending increases,
- or his inexperienced, naive and weak foreign policy agenda?
Like everything else about the Republican sleaze machine, it's based on deception anyway and their "polls" have no actual validity. Of course I wasn't my usual kind self to the folks representing Newt Gingrich or his "poll" of leading questions last week either. Fake polls seem to be the way to get us, exhausted by the 18 months of hysterical telephone opinion shouting, to participate. Everyone wants his opinion heard: not everyone is smart enough to realize he's being used.
Newt, surprisingly, is no friend of Bossie. According to the Washington Post, when he was fired from his job as an investigator working for Representative Dan Burton (R-IN) on the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee in 1998, Speaker Gingrich said to Burton of Bossie's behavior:
"I'm embarrassed for you, I'm embarrassed for myself, and I'm embarrassed for the [House Republican] conference at the circus that went on at your committee."Indeed, even George H. W. Bush said of Bossie:
"We will do whatever we can to stop any filthy campaign tactics"and W, himself no stranger to sleazy campaign tactics and not known for his sense of shame, asked his supporters not to support him as well.
But such is the fever of Obama Derangement Syndrome that this turd has again floated to the surface of the cesspool and who knows, perhaps will emerge from your telephone while you're trying to catch up on your sleep or eat your dinner or watch TV of an evening. But why wait?
If you have time on your hands today, try calling 866-635-8661 and ask Citizens United about their opinion of people who try to undermine our government "in time of war" or perhaps throw any of their other nauseous accusations back at them. Tell 'em Fogg sent ya. Tell them you're taking a poll.
What bothers me most about this kind of deception - well, all kinds of deception - is that there are so few forces pointing out that it is in fact deceptive. Many people are led to believe that these "polls" are legitimate. Why doesn't the media explain that they are not? If they did, people would know not to trust the fake polling and it would cease being effective.
ReplyDeleteNobody has any vested interest in the truth. I've also been getting regular robo-calls that show a caller ID of "directory assistance."
ReplyDeleteThey're selling a (probably bogus) credit card debt relief program, but since robo-calls are illegal in this state even though they are widespread, and mis-identifying one's self with intent to deceive has to be some kind of fraud, the fat that it continues and continues shows there's no interest in prosecuting.
After all, that would be "interfering with capitalism," no?
After all, that would be "interfering with capitalism," no?lol. Sadly, in the minds of many, yes.
ReplyDeleteI'm just glad I don't have a land-line.
Next tactic: Ask for a package of literature with a business reply envelope with which to return a donation. Then tape the envelope to a brick, sans donation, and drop it in a mailbox. That heavy brick will run up a big charge on their postal permit account.
ReplyDeleteMaybe even scribble something nasty on the reply envo!
"Like everything else about the Republican sleaze machine, it's based on deception anyway and their "polls" have no actual validity."
ReplyDeleteNone of them do, Octo, on EITHER side. Anything that you're saying of Reps. can just a surely be said (if not more so) on the Dem. side. (In fact, I've said it myself - it's just so much fun!) It's why politics is disillusioning so many people to the process.
Besides, any campaign (of any kind) worth its salt is gonna get the best statisticians they can to twist the #'s in their favor - including using 'deceptive' verbage. If you don't like the questions, friend, next time hang up & go back to sleep!
I'm starting to worry about your stress level Octo!
Oh, excuse me Capt. Fogg. I don't believe we've met. I'd inexpertly assumed that Mr. Octo had written this piece. Sorry that I attributed your work to him. You two do have a very similar voice, though.
ReplyDeleteTake care.
Besides, any campaign (of any kind) worth its salt is gonna get the best statisticians they can to twist the #'s in their favor - including using 'deceptive' verbage. If you don't like the questions, friend, next time hang up & go back to sleep!This is why I wish the media would explain the difference between real polls and fake polls. Yes both sides use polls inappropriately - which is wrong in both cases. And if people knew better, they would recognize when to ignore the misleading information and when to pay attention.
ReplyDeleteI hope that saying "both sides do it" isn't an attempt at another false equivalence. I simply cannot respect the honesty of anyone who things there isn't a gross disparity between the parties in terms of lies, deception, libel, slander, hate mongering and overt calls to insurrection.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is a Democratic fringe element, but the fringe element is the majority of the Republican party at this point.
Susannah: "I'd inexpertly assumed that Mr. Octo had written this piece. Sorry that I attributed your work to him. You two do have a very similar voice, though."
ReplyDeleteYes, Susannah, this is a "group" forum which means there are several writers who are clearly listed in the right column under the heading, "Contributors," along with our comment policy.
Susannah: "I'm starting to worry about your stress level Octo!"
Since you inexpertly read this post, my stress level is none of your business, but the level of smugness you bring to this forum IS my business. Mind your manners!
Octo, really. I don't know what in the world has made you so angry, except that I have a differing view(conservative) than yours.
ReplyDeleteI have not been cross, ill-mannered or insulting with you. Maybe just a wee bit sarcastic (though not unkind, in our brief exchanges), but that's kinda what makes things lively, no? Yet you seem to want to fuss @ me & chastise.
In all sincerity, I am (even more now) a little worried about your stress level. You are correct, though. It is absolutely none of my business, so I'll keep it to myself from now on.
I just thought I'd pop over here & see what it is you guys write about, since most blogs I read are conservative. 'Thought I'd broaden my horizons a little & maybe make a few new friends...?? (I do have left-wing liberal friends, believe it or not! Didn't I tell you, Shaw?) :)
Any & all of you are invited to my blog if you'd like to stop by. Though - like you - I won't tolerate profanity or 'trolling.'
It's just good blog policy, right?
I agree with Capt. Fogg about this "false equivalence" business: the problem with what's been happening in the GOP lately is that the nonsense isn't just coming from a few lower-echelon fools, it's coming from the top down. This state of affairs needs to change, and the change will most likely come from conservatives with genuine integrity.
ReplyDeleteProblem there, Dino, is that those conservatives with genuine integrity, speaking out about the trash that spews from those sources (Rush Limbaugh), either have to apologize (Steele) or are told to leave the party (Specter, Powell).
ReplyDeleteI've been a Republican my whole life, but I'm switching to independent today. I'm tired of being told that I'm wrong about Limbaugh being a toolbag, and that I need to leave the party.
Yes, James, that's a problem. Michael Steele seems to me a decent fellow, and it's been painful to watch him "wake up and apologize" for even dreaming of saying things like, "2 and 2 make 4." Evidently, in the current state of the GOP, such heresies are "doubleplus ungood." But my idea is that there are reserves of good people on the conservative side who are deeply concerned about what has happened. Here's hoping their views are increasingly heard, or at least, as your own action suggests, that they will form a new, more sensible party without the nut cases dragging them down.
ReplyDeleteJames, it seems the GOP is suffering from the same radical, fringe element that used to be the scourge of the Democrats. May I offer this historical perspective?
ReplyDeleteThe civil rights movement of the 1960s disenfranchised the segregationists and white supremacists who represented the Southern wing of the Democratic party. At the 1964 Democratic Convention, for example, the Dems refused to seat the anti-civil rights delegations of Mississippi and Alabama, as examples.
It was Nixon and later Reagan who employed the so-called “Southern Strategy” to welcome those groups into the GOP. There is no coincidence that the only reliable Republican strongholds these days are the Southern states, descendents of the reactionary fringe who now comprise the Republican base.
There is perhaps another layer to this story: McCarthyism. Although discredited in most quarters, McCarthyism nevertheless runs deep in the veins of the GOP and finds expression in such persons as Cheney, Gingrich, Limbaugh, and Palin.
Meanwhile, the more traditional conservatives of the Northern and Western states are finding themselves marginalized and disenfranchised by these reactionary elements, the reverse of what occurred more than 40 years ago.
Perhaps there will be a realignment where the moderate elements from both parties will find common cause leaving the extreme left and right as outliers. At least, that is my hope.
Oh, Susannah has some "left-wing Liberal" friends and she's a "conSERVative!"
ReplyDeleteLet's not hold our breath waiting for a meaningful definition of those terms, much less a reason they should apply to her or to us or to anything said here. We're certainly not going to have any better picture of the world from her than can be built from little plastic blocks labeled as Liberal and Conservative.
It's so much easier to dismiss someone as a LWL and parrot-squawk the tired tu quoque arguments along with a bit of banjo music than to have anything intelligent to say and I'm sure even that has exhausted her intellectual powers.
But that's the minstrel show that dull witted "conservative" people dance in, protected by smug giggling points, contrived dichotomies, fake history and cellophane wrapped, dehydrated arguments: lyrics and choreography all provided by their "conservative" friends on Fox.
Friends, friends ~
ReplyDeleteI DO mean that sincerely, or at least I'm trying to...despite the reception I seem to be receiving here...Really, James is much more friendly, even though we disagree on much (no, James?)
Truly. My intention here is benign. My initial comment was benign. I apologized for my mistake in identifying the author of this post.
You folks seem intent on belittling me & attributing false qualifiers: antagonism (?), snark (?), sarcasm (that was @ Shaw's blog, not here), bad attitude (huh?), disingenuousness (?).
Perhaps this is an example, on your part, of the projection you were talking about, Octo? (Oops! I'm not sure my intellect was supposed to stretch that far...)
It's clear you fellas don't want to engage in a conversation (& apparently have NO sense of humor). And extending an invitation to dialogue is now "calling attention to self shamelessly?" Huh??
Now you have offended me! (That's kind of a joke, Octo.)
Perhaps Shaw wishes to exchange thoughts...She did visit my blog & contributed her viewpoint, which was welcomed & met with respect. She served as a catalyst for my post today, for which I thanked her & linked to her blog.
I find differing viewpoints interesting & challenging. It helps me clarify my own, & get out of my own perspective. Healthy, I think.
Incidentally, Fogg, my "left-wing liberal friends" describe THEMSELVES in those terms, to anyone who asks, & on Facebook for all to see. I must ask them for a definition.
But wait...Fogg, were you singing to me?? ;)
Does it sound like I'm singing? I know black people who use the N word, it doesn't mean they welcome it from me no matter how benignly I say it. The idea that I'm a far-left anybody because I hate lies, the politics of sabotage, hate and authoritarianism -- and unsolicited phone calls -- didn't endear you to me ab initio.If you're looking for a welcome, stop slinging inflammatory and largely meaningless epithets around. You came across as condescending and dismissive as most of the irate Republican trolls we get here.
ReplyDeleteYes you did.
All of here have heard more than enough of the "democrats do it too" fallacies to last a lifetime and it's hardly an invitation to dance, is it? It's an attitude best left behind on the grade school playground.
We live in a climate where Teddy Roosevelt, Adam Smith and Dwight Eisenhower are being described daily as far-left, Marxist, socialist, liberal wackos, so I suggest we stick to standard English and drop the superficial Foxspeak if you have any interest in a conversation.
Conservative and liberal aren't words that describe people, but specific positions and they are meaningless without an agreed upon center and in fact they are largely meaningless these days regardless of how they are used.
So what do you think about phone polls offering false dilemmas and forced choice questions? What do you think about organizations that serve solely to undermine elected government in favor of mob rule?
That would be a conversation.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSo what do you think about phone polls offering false dilemmas and forced choice questions? What do you think about organizations that serve solely to undermine elected government in favor of mob rule?I think any organization that does any of the above should be shut down and forced to pay any and all monies it received to perform such duties. There are a lot of naive people out there that don't realize these organizations are deceitful and I understand that we can't protect everyone, but when it comes to government, we have enough corruption, we don't need anymore.
ReplyDeleteThank you for leaving Susanna -- I've read your blog and I know just how "open minded" you are. And don't forget to take your Bible with you.
ReplyDeletePamela,
I don't know how it could be made illegal, except that I truly think unsolicited calls are a kind of harassment. You could sue somebody who kept ringing your doorbell, but politicians, banks and Newspapers were allowed loopholes and they can bother you at will.
Oh and by the way, smug little sue - deleting my post has earned you the same treatment here.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, sweet sue was telling us Gay marriage souldn't be legal because her religion doesn't like it and her religion "rules."
Rule this bitch.
And I apologize for letting my temper lower me to her level
ReplyDelete